Here's how I do it without JB weld.
http://veggear.blogspot.com/20...r-own-waste-oil.html

I have made several of these pumps based on a small block Chev pump and highly recommend them. I built mine for maximum flow and welded everything for strength and reliability. The pumps I have used have all been used ones I have bought from fleabay. The one pictured must have been on a motor that someone blew up going by the marks and scratches in the gears but it dosen't seem to affect it's flow rate one bit!



I wanted max flow with my pumps to make the pickup process as fast as possible and the original ports in the pump are way to small for that. Instead I used a 1" pipe socket on both the pickup and discharge side of the pumps so the flow is as unrestricted as possible.

I drilled holes in both sides of the pump housing and opened it out with a rotary File to accommodate the 1" sockets I then welded on. The pump bodys are soft cast iron and amazingly easy to cut with a rotary file. When welding the sockets in place, I put some pieces of metal I cut from an old tin can inside the pump body to prevent any splatter sticking and jamming up the gears as they run close tolerances to the pump body sidewalls.

I have found on used pumps it is very difficult not to get some pinholes in the welds for the sockets to the pump housing ( maybe oil impregnated in the cast burning off?) so I just go over them with some epoxy glue both sides when the welds cool. I also smear the mating surfaces of the main pump body and the backing plate with epoxy before I re-assemble them to prevent air or oil leaks from this region. It is important to get everything completely sealed otherwise the pumps will suck air and this will lower their output dramatically as well as making them run unevenly and noisy.

For the original inlets and outlets, I just weld them up or ram some paper down the holes then fill them with epoxy glue to block them off. I also cut the mounting flange off with a hacksaw to make the pump a bit smaller and more evenly shaped.

The motor is a 24V, 300W 2750 RPM off a scooter. I recently discovered these motors go up to 1000W!! I can't see anything over a 500W ever being needed though but would be handy for pumping a tote full at a time or very thick oils. The couplings are just Lovejoy 050 series. The Pump needs a 1/2" jaw with some shimming as it is an oddball size and the motor is 8mm, although I think the larger motors may be 12mm.

One thing I found with the pumps is that lining up the shaft of the motor and the pump perfectly is not the best practice. When lined up perfectly, the gears tend to really whine when pumping. I put this down to the thrust of the gears taking up clearance in the bearing area of the pump and the gears then clashing somewhat. I found when Offsetting the couplings fractionally ( forget which way now) the pump ran significantly quieter and didn't suffer from any misalignment drag either.

I just made a simple base from rectangular steel and welded both the pump and motor to it. If I ever need to get them off I can cut the weld with a grinder but in the mean time it means there is nothing to come loose or undone. I have had the same coupler on a couple of pumps now and pumped well in excess of 20,000L with it and there is not sign of degradation whatsoever. The spider is just the standard material which is the most oil resistant anyway.

Like all gear pumps, these units can make a bit of noise when turning fast. In an engine they can run 3000 RPM or more so damage from over speeding is generally not an issue but they can become inefficient. I have found with my pumps, long runs of hose do load the motor significantly particularly when I use the pump at full motor speed of 2500 RPM and makes the motor heat up quickly. Being a 24V motor I drive with 2x 12v SLA batteries, I have found that just running the motor on 12V doesn't affect the flow all that much ( maybe 25% dropoff) but it greatly reduces the motor load and heat buildup as well as allowing the pump to almost run silently. If I am pumping late at night or very early in the morning where there are residences above or very near the restaurants, I only use 12V so the pump is inaudible and no one gets disturbed by any noise. The motor itself is silent.

I use 25L plastic cubees to collect in and at full speed on good oil, my pump will easily do 80L/ ( 20 gal) min which fills one of these cubees in 20 sec which is getting close to as fast as I can handle them.

With an hour or two of fun and fabrication, these pumps can be made Dirt Cheap ( especially if you are in the US where the motors and pumps are a fraction of the price they are here) and are reliable, fast and will pump anything that can be pumped. They self prime and I have yet to find they were worried by chips or bits in drums which they just seem to chew through with barely a stutter. Of course a screen on the pickup wand is always a good precaution if you are diving into the depths of unknown oil.

That's a nice looking set up. You can look out for the high volume pumps. HV-55 instead of M-55. The gears are taller so it can move more oil, but they cost twice as much. I had room on the housing to drill and tap for 3/4" NPT fittings. It will take 1" ID hose, but I did not have the hose on hand so I haven't tried it out yet. The size of the hose is more important then the passage in the pump. The restriction comes from the long hose run. Look inside of a circulator pump for a boiler to see for yourself. I like the pool hose, I may have to upgrade my set up.

I have only used 3/4" ID hose and I am so happy with it that I have given up on the sucker tank. I run the pump with a 1/2" harbor freight drill and an inverter if there's no power near by. If I am only getting a few gallons I use my DeWalt cordless, but I don't want to burn it when I can burn up a $15 drill.

I have scored one or two used pumps from an engine rebuilder. They scrap them, so they may let them go for free. Even if they are worn out, they should still move our thick oil.

A welding rod or wire with a high nickle content(7018 if I remember correctly)is good for welding cast steel. It might help with your pin holes. Some experts may tell you it won't work, but I have welded steering knuckles and axle center sections on a small block jeep with 44's so I it can work if done right.


On second look, I see you do have the high volume pump.

I actually have the HV and the standard pumps.
The first one I did was a standard pump and I did that in 3/4 fittings through the side of the housing in the same way. I did the HV one in 1" fittings. On the same run of hose ( about 3m out and 1.5M in) the difference in flow is only 5L min.

I agree the hose size is important. I have used 22mm (3/4) hose and it causes much greater restriction than 27mmm ( about 1.1/4")hose even though the fittings in the pump are only 24mm (1"). On either hose, running the pump at full speed doesn't make all that much different to running it at half speed on 12V. I would like to try pool type hose as well but its too bulky for me to have in the boot of my merc along with the cubees I use when collecting.
I think for practical purposes I have probably reached the limits of this pump and the limitations of the way I pick up my oil.

I too was looking at a sucker pump but really think they have very few advantages over the SBC pumps. The only one I can see is they may be less prone to blockage but a friend sucked up a thick paper towel the other week and by reversing and forwarding the pump a few times, the thing chewed through it and spat it out. In 12 months and easily 20,000L of oil, that's only the second blockage I've had and the first one was cleared just as easy.

If tool resources are limited , here is another way ( yes, JB Weld ) . I wouldn't use it for a pressure application like running a Dieselcraft CF but it will be OK for a collection or transfer pump -

http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10978


Connect to a junked clothes dryer or washer motor - how to wire it up - here - http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...9605551/m/9391076182


Thanks to JoeM and others here who pointed out these pumps in the past .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rkpatt,

I recently bought the standard M-55 pump new from autozone for just under $20.00. I intend to do the conversion a bit different by removing and discarding the cast cover that contains the pressure regulator, I will make a new cover using a flat 3/16 inch thick steel plate, the in/out fittings will be welded to this front plate and this plate will also be used to mount the pump by making the lower section of the plate much larger than the pump.
This approach does restrict the flow access to the gears a bit more than placing the fittings through the body of the pump but it makes the conversioon easier and I don't need the absolute max flow, even at 5 G/min my converted small block Chrysler pump has enough flow to blast the end of the output hose out of a barrel unless I use a spring clamp to hold it in position, this pump will move as much or more oil than the chrysler pump and should not jamb up as easily as the gearotor design of the Chrysler pump. The internal design of the GM pump has very sharp edges where the gear meets the edge of the input area of the cast body of the pump, it is knife sharp so I suspect the tip of the gear tooth will shear any bits of frenchfrys into pieces that are smaller than the space between the teeth of the gear.

I will also cut a small grove in the shaft to accept an "O" ring as a shaft seal, the shaft has a diameter of a 1/2 inch so grooving it for a 1/16 inch thick "O" ring still leaves a shaft diameter of 3/8 inch, plenty stout when powering the pump with any likely sized DC motor. The "O" ring will be placed close to the outer end of the shaft to allow most of the shaft length to be lubricated.

I intend to saw the inlet mounting protrusion off and plug that input channel but leave the full length of the body that supports the shaft. The pump will be powered using a salvaged 250 watt scooter motor and this motor will be powered from a couple of 4inch X 4inch x 6inch 12 volt 12 amp gell cell batteries (from the same scooter) wired as 24 volts, there will be a Pulse Width Modulated speed control circuit (again, from the same scooter) between the batteries and the motor. This should make a nice small almost lunchbox sized portable pump that should run continuously for well over an hour even at full speed. I will more likely run the motor at around half speed so should actually have enough battery power for a couple hours of continuous running.

I will still be using my 40 gallon sucker tank for most collection but this will make a nice small portable transfer pump.

They can be used as a processor pump too. A little mods to the housing allows a seal on the shaft to stop the weeping. Pumps much better than the blue HF pump.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim c cook:

The pump will be powered using a salvaged 250 watt scooter motor and this motor will be powered from a couple of 4inch X 4inch x 6inch 12 volt 12 amp gell cell batteries (from the same scooter) wired as 24 volts, there will be a Pulse Width Modulated speed control circuit (again, from the same scooter) between the batteries and the motor. This should make a nice small almost lunchbox sized portable pump that should run continuously for well over an hour even at full speed. I will more likely run the motor at around half speed so should actually have enough battery power for a couple hours of continuous running.

Sorry Tim but I think your run time calculations are a bit off.
A 250W motor pulling from a 24V source is going to draw over 10A. That puts the run time under an hour to start with. You then need to calculate the discharge curve of the batteries till they fall below the voltage level where they are damaged. At that sort of draw on that size battery, I think your practical and safe run time is going to be closer to 30 min than an hour.

I did this calculation many times with my setup and while you first think is " Geez, that isn't a very long long run time " you then have to calculate how much oil you can move in that time.
I have been using some 7 Ah battery's and have a 300W motor on my pump and I can still pump over 400L of oil before the battery's need recharging, even though the run time capacity is about 15 min or less on the old and less than perfect batterys I have. That is enough for me and I simply put the battery's on the charger when I get back home ( Very bad practice to leave SLA's or wet cells discharged) and they are ready to go again when I am, which is usually 12-24 hours or a week.

My last 12 months experience with these motors would also suggest that the load these pumps will put on a motor of that size will cause it to overheat in 30 min or less of continuous running. Being a positive displacement pump, restricting the flow in or out tends to increase the load on the motor. They just want to run at what they want to run at and that's it.
Running them at 12V will lessen the heat up rate of the motor but I think you will still be pushing the limits of the motor temp at 30 Min.

I have one of these pumps coupled to a 240V 1/4 HP motor for transfer duties and it still warms up fairly quick. For long time running I would be going for a 1 HP 1440 rpm motor to be on the safe side or gearing a faster, 1/2 Hp motor down for less speed and more Torque.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe_M:
They can be used as a processor pump too. A little mods to the housing allows a seal on the shaft to stop the weeping. Pumps much better than the blue HF pump.

What mod and what kind of seal. I would love to build one of these for my processor.

DCS -- Run time -- Yes, this will depend on many things like battery temp and motor speed and load (load is affected by hose diameter and length, lift height, and thickness of the oil). The batteries I have are 12 amp hour rated so they should run the pump at full load for something around 1 hour at full rated power with fully charged batteries, running the motor at a slower speed will extend the run time proportionally. For moving oil from one barrel to another the pump does not have to lift the oil more than a couple feet so if you don't try moving oil faster than you hose size reasonably allows then the motor does not draw excessive amperage. I will be using 5/8 I.D. heater hose so powering the motor with the equivelent of 12 volts should work about right. Using 24 volt battery power and a Pulse Width Modulator as a speed control allows the motor to create almost full 24 volt torque even at slow speed.

From the several different type pumps that I am powering with these motors I find that they turn someplace around 1600 RPM when powered with the equivelent of 12 volts (the RPM goes up pretty much proportionatly with the voltage, 36 volts gets a bit scarry speedwise). These scooter motors are pretty stout, they have 4 brushes that are extra long for extended wear time, and they use ball bearings. I have yet to overheat one or need to replace the brushes. The only problem I have found is that the field permanent magnets are only held in place by the magnet's power and a bit of glue, I have never had a running motor have a problem but I have picked up a couple used motors that have had one magnet that was loose, epoxy fixed that problem.

My current Chrysler based transfer pump is powered with a big commercial 24 volt 1/3 HP motor that turns at about 1000 rpm with 21 volts and moves about 5 G/M, this empties a 50 gallon barrel in a bit under 10 minutes as long as the oil is above maybe 40 deg f, thicker oil will take both more time and battery power. This GM pump will likely move more than the 5 G/M so it should take even less time to empty a barrel. I suspect the motor will draw considerably more than 10 amps on cold oil but even if it draws 20 - 25 amps the 12 amp batteries should move at least a barrel of oil before needing to be recharged.

I find that these motors will heat up after 30 min of continuous full speed operation if powered at 24 volts (depends on amp draw which depends on work load) but I don't have any application that will take more than 15 min of continuous operation at the most and I will likely only run the motor at around half speed. Powering these motors with 12 volts will get them somewhat warm after long continuous operation time (hours) but they never get so hot that you can't hold your hand on them pretty much continiously (if the motor gets hot under these conditions you are severly overloading the motor). I have one on my flash evaporator supply pump that runs 3-4 days continiously and hardly even gets warm, but it is only drawing 6 amps (6 amp X 12 volts = only 72 watts).

I mainly use these style pumps to move oil between 50 gallon barrels, or to fill 5 gallon Jerry cans, so operation time or battery power is not likely to be a problem. My current main transfer pump is a small block Chrysel lube pump that is powered by a 1/3 HP sealed 24 volt DC industrial motor, works fine but weighs something like 50 pounds and turns at only about 1000 RPM when powered with 21 volts from the 200 amp "start" setting of a battery charger, it is a bit cumbersome to move around so this smaller and lighter self contained unit will be much more conveniant. I intend to install a 2-3 amp battery charger circuit inside the same case that contains the pump and batteries, this should recharge the batteries completely with an overnight charge. If I need to run the pump longer I will also have the capability to connect it directly to my larger external battery charger. If I have to use the pump for collection over an extended period of time I can use the same external power connection on the pump to power the pump directly from my vehicle's main 12 volt battery via a drop cord that plugs into the vehicle's trailer connector (trailer connector is wired for 100 amp service to be able to power an electric winch).

Your experience Tim certainly is different to mine with regard to the temp rise in the motors. Maybe it's because I have opened my pumps up bigger than most people seem to and they are moving more Oil.
I'm not sure how yours are set up so only a guess.

I did ruin one motor by overheating it. The braided wire that connects to the brushes became disconnected. From memory I think I recall seeing that the solder had melted but it was a while back and I'm not certain. I never repaired it as I couldn't figure out how to reassemble it and get the brushes in the right place and I have bought some 300W motors so wasn't all that worried anyways.

I have never tried them on 36V. I thought that would have put them to a very quick end but I can imagine it would be plenty scary running the pump at that speed!

I have one of these pumps as well. I did use JB weld though. I used a motor off a pedestal sump pump to power it. Works great & moves alot of oil quickly. I wish they was a cheap here as they seems to be in other parts of the world. I paid 60 bucks for mine. I plan on making another with a dc motor for dumpster diving.

quote:

Originally posted by irokcj5:

quote:

Originally posted by Joe_M:
They can be used as a processor pump too. A little mods to the housing allows a seal on the shaft to stop the weeping. Pumps much better than the blue HF pump.

What mod and what kind of seal. I would love to build one of these for my processor.

You would need a Bridgeport to machine a pocket for a press-in seal on the shaft. The seal would be press fit into the housing. Obviously, you would need a seal that can stand up to MeOH and BD. A nice teflon lip seal would work. HTH

I really can't understand why anyone would want to go to the trouble of installing a seal. All my pumps are used ones so I presume they leak more than new ones but the few drips I get are so insignificant, I can't see why anyone at all would be concerned.

I guarantee most people will spill 10 times as much oil in whatever else they are doing as what comes out of one of these pumps. Contrary to popular Myth, I have run my pump backwards for long periods many times and never had a problem with the shafts. I think they just don't run fast enough or with enough force to cause a problem.
No doubt when you stop the pump some oil will seem onto the shaft and that is probably all they need.

In any case, the tiny bit they do leak is hardly gong to be a problem except for the overly pedantic with too much time on their hands. Try one before you bother mucking around with it and see for yourself.

DCS are you pushing through a filter? It will leak more with more pressure, but I agree it's not bad at all.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
I really can't understand why anyone would want to go to the trouble of installing a seal. All my pumps are used ones so I presume they leak more than new ones but the few drips I get are so insignificant, I can't see why anyone at all would be concerned.

I guarantee most people will spill 10 times as much oil in whatever else they are doing as what comes out of one of these pumps. Contrary to popular Myth, I have run my pump backwards for long periods many times and never had a problem with the shafts. I think they just don't run fast enough or with enough force to cause a problem.
No doubt when you stop the pump some oil will seem onto the shaft and that is probably all they need.

In any case, the tiny bit they do leak is hardly gong to be a problem except for the overly pedantic with too much time on their hands. Try one before you bother mucking around with it and see for yourself.

No, of course you don't really need a seal on the shaft when pumping WVO. IF, however, you want to use one as a processor pump, as Irokcj5 was inquiring, then a seal would serve you well.
Methoxide and BD are much thinner, and would leak more. Not to mention that temps are higher, making clearances larger; and pumping times are much longer.
DCS, have you tried one as a processor pump?