Am looking at purchasing a 2008 6.0 L Ford E350. Can I use a blended fuel from used fryer oil non-hydrogenated and RUG.... if so how do I mix and filter it? Low volume user 20 gallons per week.

Wow. In my experience the newer you get the more tempermental it is. The latest model I have blended for is an 06 F250 6.0L. It works in it but it has to have a lot of dino mixed in with it. Like a half a tank. And that's in the summer. Kerosene and gas is what I use.

Thats very risky, you could cause some very expensive damage thats not covered by warranty.

There are problems with anything with a DPF (particulate filter) due to the excess fueling during regeneration, which is on all US models >=2007. See this thread:
Biodiesel getting into engine oil
about this same topic.
And this thread:
Warning:danger of using VO/>B5 on many vehicles >=2007

And this thread of someone with troubles on a 2007 Dodge Cummins running bio after only 20k, and they are saying its not covered by warranty:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/41960555...831012672#4831012672

Bio and VO both cause the same problems once they get in your motor oil.

So is there any other type of easy way to run WVO in this vehicle?

Man,I would not go over 5%.Ask fattywagon.com

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:

quote:

Originally posted by Nathan:
Man,I would not go over 5%.Ask fattywagon.com

Where specifically, give us a link that supports your claim

would you burn a blend in your new 08 ford John?

Well I wonder if Ford now uses the same optical sensor to scan the fuels.Maybe Veggiestroke would have better info on Ford Trucks.I still buy one gal. new svo to protect my IP for newer fuels.To me,I remember when unleaded fuels caused alot of valve failures.It took time to develope better valves.So my thought is this new fuel has not had enough time for longer test.I can only assume there will be failures.I know by feeling the fuel when mixed with wvo,or svo,its slick.To me that means less friction in the engine.However new engine controls,I would use sparely until I knew certain no failures or clogged cats.

I got to tell you guys I have a problem with this.There are alot of laws being passed in favor of Bio targeting fleets and municipality's. However the auto manufacturers are not on board, from what I can see. Am I missing something or are these issue's going in opposit directions? A couple of days ago I e-mailed the Biodiesel Board with this subject I am waiting for a response from them. What do you guys think? (I don't mean to hyjack this thread but this seems to fit here)

SunWizard,

"45 percent oil dilution after 10,000 miles" ?!? Wow, that's not so good. Personally, I don't drive much more than 12,000 a year with an occasional long trip, but that's quite a lot of dilution. I wonder if matching bio-fuels with bio-oils like GETG G-Oil might not produce a better fuel-oil cycle? Either way. changing the oil every 2,500 miles is a little, ah... cost prohibitive?


51fitter,

We are in a big global market transition. Whether or not you believe the hype about waning oil resources or global warming, the industry is responding to market pressures of supply and demand. "Big Oil" is a large mansion with many different rooms inside, as is "Detroit" "Stuttgart" and "Tokyo." All I mean to say is that until incumbent (and competing) energy interests can control the supply and demand, any subsidzing of the markets or gov't regulation of the developing industrial infrastructure will likely be short-sighted and ineffectual.

While not as insidious as our last centuries engineering and financial efforts to remove agriculturally based fuel sources from the market (alchohol for Otto cycles, VO for Diesels), the efforts to "optimize" modern cars for emission/exhaust concerns (as oppossed to raw performance) does leave the modern buyer in a bit of a pickle - as far as competition for conventional fuel sources goes.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
Where specifically, give us a link that supports your claim. I went to fattywagon's website and there was nothing about not going over 5%.

John,

I believe Nathan was suggesting that 490707 go to fattywagon.com and ask the folks at that website about fueling options for a 2008. Otherwise, your attitude towards all post-2000 vehicles is noted along with your incredulous take on Nathans suggestion of not fueling a Ford F350 6.0L with more than 5% recycled vegetable cooking oil.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
Why in the heck would I want a '08 Ford, or any other POS post 2000 vehicle?

I dunno - why would you respond to a thread about a subject which you apparently have nothing positive to contribute to? How about a URL which explains or supports your opinions?

Much like the original lister I am also looking at a new purchase. Can we now get back to talking about blending fuel for new diesels?

quote:

Originally posted by Nathan:
Man,I would not go over 5%. Ask fattywagon.com

Nathan,

I looked around fattywagon.com's site. Your advice about not mixing above 5% WVO like a prudent guideline for newer vehicles. Especially if one is blending and not using heat.

quote:

Originally posted by 490707:
Am looking at purchasing a 2008 6.0 L Ford E350. Can I use a blended fuel from used fryer oil non-hydrogenated and RUG.... if so how do I mix and filter it? Low volume user 20 gallons per week.

490707,

Five percent of twenty gallons is one gallon, or about three and three-quarter liters. Not much in savings even if the WVO and refining are "free." A mix of a half gallon regular unleaded gasoline and dry, recycled non-hydrogenated vegetable cooking oil would save you two bucks a week. (...assuming the price of oil doesn't start climbing back up now that the elections are over... Diesel #2 is between RUG and premium prices in my neck of North California.)

Before you buy, ask the dealer for warranty information - specifically what is considered an "additive" vs. what is considered using unconventional (non-ASTM rated) fuel. Might be around 2-5% if not as much as 10% (unlikely). Also prior to the purchase, find out as much as you can about the Winter starting options (does it have a block heater, pump/filter/air warmers, what temps do they kick in at, etc.) and fuel system configuration (how many pumps and filters and where). You can always go down to the lot and test drive a bunch - assuming your credit is good enough

Prior to experimenting, get a baseline to evaluate your car AFTER the break-in period. By baseline I mean:

1) get engine oil analysis (make sure to ask the dealer what weight of engine oil is in the car from the factory - likely very light.) ALSO, consider using synthetic oils year round as they provide much less crankcase resistance upon cold startups - primarily because they do a better job of sequestering away particulates and clinging to cylinder walls even efter sitting overnight. Building on SunWizards advice, I also strongly recommend an increased frequency of oil changes when "bio" fueling. Look into GETG G-Oils if you want to use "bio" crankcase oils. Back to a baseline:

2) evaluate cold starting characteristics in warm and cold conditions - noting how long the engine takes to turn over and emissions quality. Also note that the emissions will vary depending on a lot of things, like the previous days driving, overnight lows, relative humidity, etc... just get a ballpark to note if anything is egregiously out of whack.

3) performance (0-62mph on a straightaway, or a coast down evaluation)

4) efficiency, or how many miles per gallon do you get around town, on the highway and with payload

Each years slew of new cars has engineering "improvements" which are impossible to account for if you are not a mechanic certified by the dealer with access to the latest developments and the wherewithall to stay on top of them. It is impossible to predict how these "improvements" will affect alternative fueling. Most people I know who can afford a new car and want to fuel with WVO go for the two tank solution and use a combination of electrical and coolant heat exchange.

Search here for John Galt's dewatering upflow system for filtration. A lot depends on the quality of the source VO and the restaurants useage. In short, if it survives a hot-pan test, doesn't have creamy stuff and bits floating around in it and is liquid in the 45F+ temp range, you may be in business...

From what I do know about newer cars they are very specifically engineered for ULSD's liquid characteristics (density, viscosity, boiling point, flash point, etc.) and mechanical properties (cetane number, lubricity, ice- gel- corrosion-inhibiting).

Hexanes and naphthelenes like gasoline and tuolene will make good blending agents at such low percentages of mix. You might also consider pure gum turpentine (no more than 2% of the total mixture) or acetone (a ketone which does not react well with Viton and other fuel line, seal and gasket materials - no more than 1/10th of a percent total mix) or even isopropyl alchohol (also less than 2% total mix). Figure out what mixture with your 5% WVO gets the viscosity lowered and keeps the density in the same ballpark (look into specific gravity - hydrometers are common in the beer making industry if you want to do practical evaluations of your mixtures. If you can approach those two goals without greatly compromising your cetane index and other liquid fuel considerations, then your post-2000 exhaust emissions and fuel metering cotrols should stay happy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low_sulfur_diesel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fluid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylene

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocarbon_mixtures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity#Viscosity_of_blends_of_liquids
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_gravity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether#Applications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine

I would love to hear from other veg (and animal) oil "thinners" - often called "blenders" - who are successfully blending diesel fuel alternatives in their post 2000 automobiles and farm equipment.

Aloha!

Thanks 300d. I don't mean to know it all,but if unsure,I approach things easy.
Like a never ran over 80% wvo,I always blended diesel just in case of cold temps in summer.
Boy just got 4 gals. peanut oil,I can't wait to smell that.

My Father In-Law and I have 1984 and 1985 Mercedes 300 TD Wagons and he has a 2003 Chevy with Duramax and we use blended fuel in all three vehicles. Our formula is 15 Gals WVO, 5 Gals Diesel or Kerosene, 1/2 Gal Gasoline, and 16 oz. of octane boost with degel and ice.

the biggest issue we have had is chenging the filters due to the clening out of the fuel system. I have replaced Primary filter 2 times and Secondary filter 8 times.


Russ

quote:

Originally posted by 51fitter:
I got to tell you guys I have a problem with this.There are a lot of laws being passed in favor of Bio targeting fleets and municipality's. However the auto manufacturers are not on board

Talk to your congressmen (or congresswomen).

The big 3 are headed back to Washington with their hats out.

Have your congressman tell them to get on board with Bio/Veggie, or head back to Detroit in their corporate jets.

quote:

Originally posted by 51fitter:
I got to tell you guys I have a problem with this.There are alot of laws being passed in favor of Bio targeting fleets and municipality's. However the auto manufacturers are not on board, from what I can see. Am I missing something or are these issue's going in opposit directions? A couple of days ago I e-mailed the Biodiesel Board with this subject I am waiting for a response from them. What do you guys think? (I don't mean to hyjack this thread but this seems to fit here)

And why exactly do you think the big three are in the position they are in? Your second mistake is thinking bio board gives a rats ass about what home brewers think, dont hold your breath waiting for a response.

Hey 490707, I have been reading through the various bio-fuels forums on the topic of blending alternatives, and have noticed that in the USA kerosene is the preferred thinner for VO, whereas in the UK it is illegal to put kerosene in the fuel tank, so it is common practice there to thin VO with gasoline (petrol). You might find this UK bio-fuels forum might give you a different perspective on the subject of blending.

quote:

Originally posted by fabricator:

quote:

Originally posted by 51fitter:
I got to tell you guys I have a problem with this.There are alot of laws being passed in favor of Bio targeting fleets and municipality's. However the auto manufacturers are not on board, from what I can see. Am I missing something or are these issue's going in opposit directions? A couple of days ago I e-mailed the Biodiesel Board with this subject I am waiting for a response from them. What do you guys think? (I don't mean to hyjack this thread but this seems to fit here)

And why exactly do you think the big three are in the position they are in? Your second mistake is thinking bio board gives a rats ass about what home brewers think, dont hold your breath waiting for a response.

Boy did you hit that nail on the head........not a single word from them!!!!!

Hey 51fitter goes that user name hint at your profession?

quote:

Originally posted by bio_cowboy:
Hey 490707, I have been reading through the various bio-fuels forums on the topic of blending alternatives, and have noticed that in the USA kerosene is the preferred thinner for VO, whereas in the UK it is illegal to put kerosene in the fuel tank, so it is common practice there to thin VO with gasoline (petrol). You might find this UK bio-fuels forum might give you a different perspective on the subject of blending.

It's illegal to use kerosene in road vehicles in the USA also.

quote:

It's illegal to use kerosene in road vehicles in the USA also.

Good point fabricator. Perhaps with this in mind blenders who blend with gasoline might one day find a more favorable response from the various bio-fuels forums than they have received in the previous years. It might be worth noting that those who blend with gasoline have frequently been banned on most of the bio-fuels forums.

quote:

Originally posted by fabricator:
Hey 51fitter goes that user name hint at your profession?

Yes I've been a pipefitter/welder for 28 yrs

Sheet Metal Workers International Local 7 Zone 2, here for 29 years.