I am trying to understand blending, but I need some basics first.
Normally there is basics for newbies on the top of the page in bold explaining the basics and concepts before you start reading posts, which is not in the solvent thinning forum. So I have a couple of question to catch me up a bit before people start calling me a moron for not knowing.

Do you need and or use a 2 tank system for blending?

Do you just pour the different fuels in the tank and drive or does it have to be mechanically blended?

Does anything have to be heated?

Can you use the stock fuel filter?

Is blending Ok for a standyne IP for a 91 7.3 Ford?

Thanks

Here is some basics
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/2271008052
and if you go here
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9751014871
you'll see a list of discussions which answer your questions in detail.

briefly:

quote:

Do you need and or use a 2 tank system for blending?

not necessarily

quote:

Do you just pour the different fuels in the tank and drive or does it have to be mechanically blended?

I premix the VO with kerosene and other solvents/additives

quote:

Does anything have to be heated?

I use plug-in pre-heating on the engine, fuel filter, and injectors

quote:

Can you use the stock fuel filter?

yes I do

quote:

Is blending Ok for a standyne IP for a 91 7.3 Ford?

I wouldn't know, you'd have to ask a Ford person with a truck like yours operating in your climate.

Sorry John I need basics on solvent thinning. I have been running on SVO for over 2 years now and need input on that.

To sum it up.

What percentage of oil can I put in my diesel tank without any modifications of any sort?

Will the fuel mixture, mix in the tank if I don't mechanically mix it before putting it in?

Hope that makes sense to you.

quote:

Originally posted by mixelpix:
Grease Gun,

Don't worry about John, he just has a soap box to stand on. He might even try and sell you on adding soap cause it is so sliipery, LoL!

Patrick your insults and jibes wouldn't be so arrogant and undermine your own credibility so badly if any of the rubbish you try to push as fact wasn't against every standard and accepted rule of veg use in its different forms.

quote:

Your stanadyne should be fine up to a 50% blend of ULSD and VO.

SHOULD be fine???
Doesn't sound very confidence inspiring to me. I believe the standyne pumps need to be looked after very carefully and Personally, I would be asking things like what temp are we talking about operating at and what sort of oils were being used before I jumped to that supposition.

quote:

The agitation of driving will keep the fuel blended.

yes it will.
Of course, usually the car is stationary when it's tank is being filled and if you dumped an amount of veg oil in it, it's more than possible, even likely, that a big slug of straight oil will sit around the fuel pickup and when you fire up the engine, it will suck up a whole load of straight, cold veg which I am led to believe could break one of those type pumps in one go.

This is why the generally accepted safer practice is to premix the fuel before putting it in the tank. Thats what nearly everyone agrees is the best method.

quote:

If the car sits for two weeks, they may begin to separate.

It is universally accepted than veg and common blending agents ( Diesel, Bio, kero, RUG, turps, thinners et al,) do NOT separate and never have been found to have seperated over any length of time.

quote:

Wait and see how long it takes for them to separate. Otherwise, a lot of people have their own magic formulaes for how to mix in all sorts of nonsense.

yes, wait for a very LOOOOOOG time before working out what has already been well established.... that they don't seperate once mixed.

Mixeduppix,
Do you have any links to these magic formulas for mixing this nonsense you speak of Patrick? I'd be interested to see exactly what your talking about.

quote:

Heat: the VO in the tank needs to warmed up (not heated) to around 75F is the VO has waxed.

Of course if it hasn't waxed as it is only known to do in winter, the fundamental thing about blending is you don't need to heat the fuel!

quote:

ULSD and other petroleum diesel fuels, however, don't respond too well to heating to 175F. If you are adding heat, it is a good idea to have the option to turn it off.

What other petroleum diesel fuels are available in the US?
Exactly why, in your knowledgeable opinion, would a blend of diesel and veg not respond too well to being heated to 175oF, especially in the proportions of 50% you reccomend?

quote:

Hope that helps a little,
-Patrick Kennedy

Sadly, I think it misguides and misinforms a whole lot more than it helps and I would urge anyone reading these comments to attempt to verify them before putting any stock in them. By doing this you will be able to learn what the generally accepted practices are and be able to dismiss these flawed comments to the strong, round metal container placed near the gutter on Tuesday nights, where they deserve to be kept.

I think the correct response should be that this is all still just experimental, no one has all the correct information at this time. Read alot of threads and take a little information from each of them then start with your own experimenting. The one thing that I am sure everyone will agree with though is that you must have clean, water free fuel for blending. What blend you decide to go with depends upon your environment and your engine. I have a GM 6.2 which also has the Stanadyne pump. I have done quite a bit of research on the failures of this pump. All of the failures I have read about were caused by 2 things, switching tanks at the wrong time (fuel either too hot or too cold) and water in the fuel. I live in Texas and run about a 75% WVO/15% Diesel/10% RUG and it runs great, always starts immediately on the first crank and rarely smokes (even on start-up) I will probably have to adjust the blend in the winter but for now it is great. So go ahead and blend away, I wouldn't worry about the Stanadyne pump.
Rusty

I wish there were at least a way to signal wildly off-topic posts on this forum, like prepending the subj. line with "OT", but here goes anyways:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
Patrick your insults and jibes wouldn't be so arrogant and undermine your own credibility so badly if any of the rubbish you try to push as fact wasn't against every standard and accepted rule of veg use in its different forms.

Last I checked, VO fueling is still an alternative fuel. One that is not even regulated by the ASTM. Blending especially is by no means standardized, nor regulated - so, I really don't understand where you think these 'standards and accepted rules' are coming from. Unless you mean the standards generally found acceptable to the internet forum posting community? Either way, it is experimental. Your experiments and results may vary.

Apparently in your first post to this thread, you did not answer Grease Guns' questions in a way which he found useful. If you don't like what I have to say, you can choose to ignore my posts here my disingenously incredulous little friend. Please otherwise save us the bandwidth of suffering through your dissemination.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
SHOULD be fine???
Doesn't sound very confidence inspiring to me.

It is not meant to be. Stanadyne pumps are known to suffer right along with other manufacturers when presented with poorly refined fuels and other liquid which is was not designed to accomodate.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
I believe the standyne pumps need to be looked after very carefully

If that is what you truly believe, then I can only hope that you are very careful when you look at them.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
Personally, I would be asking things like what temp are we talking about operating at and what sort of oils were.

Then why don't you go ahead and ask those things?

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
Of course, usually the car is stationary when it's tank is being filled

And there is also often a good amount of fuel already in the tank. If you are a 'mixer' - like you say - it is likely already mixed. Myself, I like to fill my tank before it gets less than 1/2 full. If you live in a climate which regularly passes the dew point, keeping the tank topped up will help to inhibit the growth of cladosporium resinae, the fungus which grows in Diesel fuel systems - especially Diesel marinecraft.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
This is why the generally accepted safer practice is to premix the fuel before putting it in the tank. Thats what nearly everyone agrees is the best method. /[QUOTE]

Then you must have missed the original listers first post, and his reply to your post. He is new to blending, so why would you assume he knows all these 'genreally accepted' things which you hyperbolicly claim 'everyone' already knows? How about you listen first, then blather on. But at least keep it on topic, eh?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DCS:
Mixeduppix,
Do you have any links to these magic formulas for mixing this nonsense you speak of Patrick? I'd be interested to see exactly what your talking about.

For someone who professes such think skin when taunted, you seem to chime in accordingly with your own diminutives. Otherwise, I don't believe in or practice magic, but I am sure that you impress a lot of women with your magic and card tricks...

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
Of course if it hasn't waxed as it is only known to do in winter, the fundamental thing about blending is you don't need to heat the fuel!

I don't have any idea what planet you live on, but there are lots of geographical regions which are known to dip below 40F in the Fall, Spring and even, yes - I know this is hard to believe if you never leave your cubicle or your couch - even in the Summer

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
What other petroleum diesel fuels are available in the US?[QUOTE/]

Are you really that naive? Do you really never go anywhere except the mall, the mini-mart and the internet? There are many many many flavors of petroleum diesel fuels available in the United States of America. Ever hear of a tractor? Ever seen a big jet flying in the sky? Cryminny...


[QUOTE]Originally posted by DCS:
Exactly why, in your knowledgeable opinion, would a blend of diesel and veg not respond too well to being heated to 175oF, especially in the proportions of 50% you reccomend?

Heating diesel fuel to 175F promotes it's breakdown. Many fuel pump makers have electrical heating options available for assisting in cold starts or with useage of biodiesel. Note: many commercial aftermarket pump mfcr's don't recommend using the pumps with VO because of the liabilities associated with unregulated fueling. This is not to say that their pumps won't heat VO, but what you will notice is that where they do recommend adding heat to assist in biodiesel fueling (esp. bioD made with WVO), there is usualy a caveat which states that the heating should be turned off when fueling with petroleum diesel exclusively. As responsible and licensed business people interested in predictable and reliable results and return on their investments, they don't even go near blending issues.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:
Sadly, I think it misguides and misinforms a whole lot more than it helps and I would urge anyone reading these comments to attempt to verify them before putting any stock in them.[QUOTE/]

And you are entitled to that opinion...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DCS:
By doing this you will be able to learn what the generally accepted practices are and be able to dismiss these flawed comments

Says you... I love that this Nimrod is appealing to conventional wisdom at the same time he flaunts it by blending high octane fuels and other such nonsense with otherwise good ol' diesel fuels.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:... to the strong, round metal container placed near the gutter on Tuesday nights, where they deserve to be kept.

Ah, that's right - you are obviously not in America. Most of us here separate our refuse into recycling bins, if not lawn clippings, and other distinctions. Like most people who vociferously advocate unsafe blending practices (as opossed to the safe ones) you obviously don't care about things like recycling, sustainability or the environment. Please stop olluting my planet with your exhaust emissions and please stop polluting this forum with your psychobabble.

Sincerely,
-Patrick Kennedy

Mixeduppix,
How long before your next Birthday?
The one where you become a big boy and turn 10?

If it's more than a couple of weeks, I'm betting you will have had your dummy spit and taken your bat and ball and left all those of us who don't appreciate your infantile wisdom alone to carry on as we were before.
Happily.

Hello DCS, UT_Raptor, and others who are interested in a dialog on mixed fuels. I believe the best way to deal with trolls, such as Patrick, is to remove him from the list of those you wish to read, and report every one of his offensive messages to the moderators and otherwise ignore him, because when we respond to his insanity he has won by disrupting our informed dialog on mixed fuels.

Sources in support of Mixed Fuels:

Mixed Fuels Dialog
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15660

Mixed fuel Essays, Testimonials and Dialogs on Additives, Blends and Fuel mixes
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15950

Mixed fuels-Acetone
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/10779

Mixed fuels-Alcohol
"Gaydou, A.M., Menet, L., Ravelojaona, G., and Geneste, P. 1982. Vegetable energy sources in Madagascar: ethyl alcohol and oil seeds (French). Oleagineux 37(3):135–141."

Owner’s manuals that recommend Mixed Fuels
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15704

'82 VW Pickup owner’s manual there says that "UP TO 30% GASOLINE" may be added for cold weather starting.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/12021

BMW manual
http://www.biofuel-uk.net/bmwpetrol.jpg

Viscosity stuff . . .
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15342
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15692
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15728

Specific gravity measurements of SVO fuel mixes with gasoline
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/16317

Mixed fuels forums:
infopop forum
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9751014871

Paddy's goat forum
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum.

Forums where dialog on mixed fuels is not tolerated:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel

Best regards,

Jeffrey S, Brooks
the Great Western Vehicle
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/rightlivelihood/fuel/index.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Brooks:
Hello DCS, UT_Raptor, and others who are interested in a dialog on mixed fuels. I believe the best way to deal with trolls, such as Patrick, is to remove him from the list of those you wish to read, and report every one of his offensive messages to the moderators and otherwise ignore him, because when we respond to his insanity he has won by disrupting our informed dialog on mixed fuels.

Yes, I believe you are absolutely right Jeff and I will take the ignore and report option from now on.

Clearly the agenda of some, as they have demonstrated beyond any shadow of a doubt, is anything but rational and Intelligent discussion. Looking over different topics on this board, they don't seem to be willing to discuss any topic intelligently and with any manner of maturity.

Thankfully, those who display this kind of behavior don't last long and ignoring them will deny further feeding their particular affliction and speed up the pest eradication process.
A week or 2 from now this particular annoyance will be forgotten and their posts nothing more than an pitiful blight on the discussions they have soiled here.

The upside is of course, in their burying of their own credibility in a hole so deep, it could emerge out the other side of the earth through a barrel of Bombay Chutney, a whole new source of fossil oil could be discovered on the way through that would cure the worlds energy problems for another 500 Years!
Here's hoping!

Well I have no idea if I have a standyne in either of my fords in my sig but the only mods on these trucks are performance mods(and plenty of them I might boast). And as far as my wvo mixer, all I do is settle and filter to 2 micron for clean oil and add my solvents (85/10/5 wvo/k1/rug and a double shot of cetane per bottle). I mix with a clean fairly new shovel in a tank and I settle and filter some more and fill up the truck. No heaters or anything. It's been working awesome on both trucks for about 3-4000 miles on both.

As for you mixelpix, this is getting real old. Please act your age.

And DCS you're not helping egging him on. Jeff is right. When someone's behaving childish just ignore them. Maybe they'll go away.
GEEZ PEOPLE
YOU'RE RUINING THIS FORUM!!!!!!!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
wake me when we get back on track please

Grease Gun,

I have an 89 F250 with a stanadyne pump -the same as yours. I have done some experiments with spring/summer (above 45F) blending and I don't know if it has damaged the pump or not.

It seems to work fine. I have experimented blending with gasoline, diesel, power service cetane boost, hydraulic oil, motor oil, #1 heating oil, paint thinner, and turpentine.

I start on diesel and switch to a blend --the truck won't start well (or with some blends, at all) on a thick blend. In terms of the pump's effectiveness while driving, when I switch fuels I notice no difference. I would be leery of running thick, unheated blends through my injection pump in the winter because of the experience some other Alaskans have had with (hot) svo in their cold pumps (-both were stanadyne rotaty pumps in chevy suburbans).

I have been running various mixes of WVO and unleaded gasoline (RUG/Petrol) since Feb, 2007 on a 1983 Chevy 6.2L diesel. I have started the engine with no difficulty on a 70/30 (WVO/RUG) mix down to 38F. I have found that by blending as little as 5% RUG in the summer, and as much as 30% in the winter, the engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

Regarding Grease Gun’s basic question of how I do it: I just settle and filter my WVO. Water trapping happens as I filter and screen down to 5 microns right into the fuel tank. I then add whatever solvent I happen to be using, which is usually 10%-30% unleaded gasoline (petrol) depending upon the nighttime low. I increase the solvent the colder the temperatures get. I have found vegetable oils mix so readily with gasoline, that there is not need to mix. The fuel gets mixed as I drive, and I have had no problem with this method. However, if one has a high animal fat content WVO, then one may find some separation. In that case, experiment with adding acetone, and start with small quantities, such as 0.1%.

Sources in support of Mixed Fuels:

Peterson, C.L., J. C. Thompson, G.L. Wagner, D. L. Auld, and R. A. Korus. 1982. Extraction and utilization of winter rape (BRASSICA NAPUS) as a diesel fuel extender. For presentation at American Oil Chemists’ Society Annual Meeting in Toronto, Canada, May 2-6, 1982.

Wagner, G. L., and C. L. Peterson. 1982. Performance of winter rape (BRASSICA NAPUS) based fuel mixtures in diesel engines. Vegetable Oil Fuels: Proceedings of the International Conference on Plant and Vegetable Oils Fuels. St. Joseph, MI: ASAE.

Using Unmodified Vegetable Oils as a Diesel Fuel Extender –
A Literature Review
By Sam Jones and Charles L. Peterson
Graduate Research Assistant and Professor and Interim Head
Department of Biological and Agricultural Engineering
University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho 83843
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/idahovegoilslitreview.pdf

Vegetable Oil As A Diesel Replacement Fuel
Phillip Calais* and AR (Tony) Clark**
* Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia,
** Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc,
http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/paper/paper.htm

Sources in support of Mixed Fuels:

Mixed Fuels Dialog
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15660

Mixed fuel Essays, Testimonials and Dialogs on Additives, Blends and Fuel mixes
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15950

Key essays on Mixed fuel:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/7728
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/12030
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/13421
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/14379
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15616
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15660
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15749

Mixed fuels-Acetone
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/10779

Mixed fuels-Alcohol
"Gaydou, A.M., Menet, L., Ravelojaona, G., and Geneste, P. 1982. Vegetable energy sources in Madagascar: ethyl alcohol and oil seeds (French). Oleagineux 37(3):135–141."

Owner’s manuals that recommend Mixed Fuels
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15704

'82 VW Pickup owner’s manual there says that "UP TO 30% GASOLINE" may be added for cold weather starting.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/12021

BMW manual
http://www.biofuel-uk.net/bmwpetrol.jpg

Viscosity stuff . . .
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15342
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15692
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/15728

Specific gravity measurements of SVO fuel mixes with gasoline
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel/message/16317

Mixed fuels forums:
infopop forum
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9751014871

Paddy's goat forum
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum.

Forums where dialog on mixed fuels is not tolerated:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vegoil-diesel

Best regards,

Jeffrey S, Brooks
the Great Western Vehicle
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/rightlivelihood/fuel/index.htm

Jeff, maybe post all that info in your sig line as the head of a discussion, and just refer to it in a one line link.

It's getting more than a little redundantly redundant.