Hey guys,

Longtime reader and lurker, small time poster. Anyways I stopped up a fuel filter on a 94 KW T600 with a Catepillar 435hp 3406e engine. My dual 125 tanks were almost full of pump diesel fuel, and I added 5 gallons to each tank. A few miles up the road, it stopped the truck up and had to change the filter.

Any ideas?

My oil is filtered to 5 microns and I attempt to boil it for about an hour, and let it sit in the boiling tank for 10-12 hours. Then decant the bottom if any water has settled out.

I got this 5 gallons I put in each tank from the bottom of my storage tank. Do you think it was water in it and stopped up the filter?

Thanks

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I got this 5 gallons I put in each tank from the bottom of my storage tank.

That's the problem. It's very likely that the bottom of the storage tank contains high melt point fuel which tends to solidify, even in solution with diesel, at normal winter temperatures. As well any water in the fuel would be in the bottom of the tank and if present would now also be in the vehicle tank and causing problems. ALWAYS draw fuel from the top half of storage tanks.

Drain the fuel mix from vehicle tanks into a container, change the filters, refill with diesel and check for problems. If all works OK then decant the drained fuel off the top of the container into one of the tanks and check for any differences in running when switching between the tank of diesel and the tank of mixed fuel.

Thanks. I have these really nice stainless steel totes that hold 350 gallons and I drain the hot oil into them and store them. They have this nice two inch valve on the bottom so they are nice to use. I will go off the top from now on.

I was running a 1998 Cummins M11 on up to %40 pouring it right into the tanks and no problem.s

What temperature was the diesel in the tank when you poured the veg into it? If you don't pre-blend the cold veg with at least some amount of diesel before adding it into the bulk of the diesel the veg does not mix at all quickly, it pretty much drops directly to the bottom of the tank (demonstrate this by trying it in a glass jar) and you will draw mostly straight veg rather than a blend.I prefer to blend ALL the fuel blend before adding it to the tank. A bit of true Spirits of Turpentine and a bit of Acetone helps hold it in solution to a lower temperature once everything is blended, I add one ounce of each to every 5 gallons of blend.

I have been able to add diesel into a to-thick (due to temps) veg/diesel blend and have it mix within a few miles but adding the heavier veg into diesel is a bit iffy, it can be done in nice warm temps but does not work too well in cold weather. I spoke with one veg supplier that was selling cleaned-dewatered WVO to a company running cement trucks on it, usually no problems but a few times they had pluged up filters, he would rather take the flack for this rather than have them pre-blend, he said they woild probably stop buying veg if they had to bother with preblending.

Hot filtered WVO with animal fatts and/or hydrogenated oil can indeed be a problem, as the oil cools these high meltpoint components will solidify out of solution and drop to the bottom of the tank, this is a classic problem with cold blends in cold weather, I go back to straight diesel once the temps get below freezing, got tired of walking in the middle of a cold night due to plugged filters, slowly working toward a heated 2-tank system

I concur with Tim's points. I mix the clear clean dry VO 45% with kerosene plus 5% naphtha plus a bit of turpentine and acetone before it goes into the tank to mix with pump diesel for the final percent I want. I'm running 15% VO below freezing to 0°F when I drop to 10% VO. I can run VO mix below freezing because I separate out most of the PHO and fats during processing, and what little gets into the storage barrel stays on the bottom when I pump off the top 2/3ds.

Hey PyroSparks911, you did not say that you were running a 1998 Cummins M11 94 KW T600 with a Catepillar 435hp 3406e engine on up to %5 WVO, but since you are on this forum, it seems reasonable to assume you are, although that is some expensive equipment to be experimenting with. No offense, but you really should know what you are doing with WVO before you dump it into dual 125 gallon fuel tanks on that heavy equipment. And, winter time is when you get to learn how much trouble burning WVO can be. As you have now found, only 5 gallons screwed you pretty bad. And, it could get worse.

It does not sound like you even removed the animal fat from your WVO before hand, and we can only hope you filtered and de-watered it properly, so I pretty much agree with the advice here, except that diesel fuel and WVO in the winter time is a bad combo, because, as you have learned you will wax your filters.

In cold weather it is better to use light solvents, such as kerosene or gasoline or naptha, or whatever light solvent you have on hand. The maximum recommended gasoline or kerosene component to the total volume of fuel is about 30%, but if the temps wherever you are, are hovering near 32F (0c), then all you will need is about 5-10% gasoline, or about twice as much kerosene, to WVO, NOT to the diesel component. So, that is about 1/2 gallon to one gallon of gasoline or naptha, or twice as much kerosene.

Also, it sounds like you may have some animal fat in your fuel, because you drained your WVO from the bottom of your holding tank. As has already been said, you always want to get your WVO from the top of your WVO holding tank, because animal fat, most particulate and water settle to the bottom.

Animal fat does not respond to petroleum distillates, so you will need a ketone, such as acetone or MEK. That relationship is about 10% of the animal fat content to ketone solvent by volume. You probably do not know how much animal fat you have in your fuel, but it is reasonable to estimate it, based upon 10-20% of the WVO by volume, unless it has been removed. If you are going to estimate how much acetone or turpentine to add, then back off the gasoline at the same rate you add acetone; or if you use turpentine and kerosene, then back the kerosene off at the same rate you add the turpentine.

Since you added 5 gallons of filtered WVO to each thank then we can estimate the animal fat component might be about 1 gallon. 1/10th to 2/10ths of that is 1/10th to 2/10ths of a gallon, which is only about a pint of acetone. Since you are looking at so little solvent by volume compared to the rest of the tank, then you have a large fudge factor. You could dump a gallon of acetone into the full 125 gallon fuel tanks, and it would be less than 1% of the total, which should not affect the operation of the engine at all. And, if you put that much acetone in, then there would be no reason to put gasoline or kerosene in.

If you are not going to try to dissolve the animal fat with a solvent, then once you have animal fat in your cold fuel tanks on the M11 you will not be able to get it out, unless you have a BIG drain valve on the bottom of the fuel tank. At that point it might be better, easier, to just add some acetone, or turpentine to your fuel tank to dissolve the animal fat.

But, since you have heavy equipment, then another way to estimate the amount of acetone to add, is maybe you can get your hands on a boroscope. If so, put it down the fuel inlet after draining the tanks to see how much lard you have setup on the bottom of the tank. Then estimate its volume and add acetone at 10% of that volume. Or, heat the fuel tanks up to about 80F (25c) (NOT with an open flame) and let the fat drain out.

If you have water in your WVO,then let us hope you have water traps on your fuel line. If so, drain them often. You might have to drain them about every hour of operation until you know how fast the water is passing through your fuel lines. Because, you definitely do not want water from WVO to end up in your injector pump, because water in WVO usually comes with salt dissolved in it. It is the salt that kills the injector pump quite rapidly, and I bet the M11's injector pump is not cheap.

I hope you get that puppy running again.

Ride'm cowboys away, bio-cowboy

I have made lots and lots of biodiesel bio-cowboy. This was my first attempt at doing anything with svo as fuel. When I pulled some off the top in the past, it worked great. I will begine to premix diesel and svo 50/50. And then mix this 50/50 mix with half diesel half 50/50 mix. Do you think this will be ok? I do not really want to mess with the kersone, as it is died and will mess my fuel system up. I might try the gas.

Thanks, this SVO blending mixing stuff is all new to me.

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I will begine to premix diesel and svo 50/50. And then mix this 50/50 mix with half diesel half 50/50 mix. Do you think this will be ok?

That blend should work OK in most engines in most warm climates. Premixing should eliminate any stratification problems in the vehicle tank.

Hey PyroSparks911, good to know that you have been making and using bio-diesel for some time. Since I was unfamiliar with your handle I was not sure how much background you had already.

Yes, I am familiar with a lot of people not being able to use kerosene as a thinner for legal reasons. So, it seems to me to be reasonable to use gasoline instead. Just out of curiosity, where are you?

As for pre-mixing a thinner with your filtered, de-watered and de-fatted WVO, I think it is a whole lot if unnecessary work, that will only expose you unnecessarily to toxic fumes. I just pump the filtered, de-watered and de-fatted WVO right into my fuel tank and top off with as much gasoline as I feel I need and drive off knowing that petroleum distillates mix so readily with WVO that they will be thoroughly mixed in a block of driving just from the jostling of the truck.

Try it. Just get a used clear glass bottle with a good lid on it and fill it half way with your filtered, de-watered and de-fatted WVO, then add about 20% gasoline to the bottle, then just turn it over once and watch what happens, then leave it to sit for a day or two. I believe you will find that the two fluids will mix and not separate from the tiniest bit of motion.

If you find that something drops out, then it is likely to be either water, particulate, or fat. If it is fat, then try adding a few onces (ML) of acetone to the jar, then turn it over once, then watch what happens again.

Yahoo, bio-cowboy

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As for pre-mixing a thinner with your filtered, de-watered and de-fatted WVO, I think it is a whole lot if unnecessary work,

Possibly quite true for someone in TEXAS where it never gets cold. Those of us in the part of the world where is gets cold for half the year can't get by cutting corners like you do. I've lived in Amarillo, nice place, but not at all representative of the challenges a lot of us face using VO fuels below freezing temperature.

OK thanks guys I will try to store all this info.

I might do a 85/wvo 15/rug and then take that mixture and blend it 50/50 with diesel fuel. Maybe I could run that straight.

I mean I see people on this board running 85wvo/15rug with no problems...

Hey PyroSparks911 and John, yes I agree PyroSparks911, there are people on this forum who use 15% RUG blends and more with no problem, so blending such a blend at 50/50 with diesel brings the overall RUG component down to 7%, so it should be quite harmless.

Yes, John, I agree a blend or process that works in the Texas panhandle may not work in the tundra, and vice versa, so, no I am not assuming my methods will necessarily work for you. However, since you live in the tundra, it seems that a lighter hydrocarbon for thinning purposes than kerosene would be wise to try in your region, because kerosene seems rather marginal for extreme cold, just as diesel seems rather marginal to use as a thinner in moderate cold.

On the other hand we are in dialog with PyroSparks911. He has yet to tell us where he is. Maybe he is in the tundra, or maybe he is in the UK, or the southern USA. That is why I asked where he was, so that recommendations that we all make can take into count his region.

Yahoo blenders, bio-cowboy

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However, since you live in the tundra, it seems that a lighter hydrocarbon for thinning purposes than kerosene would be wise to try in your region, because kerosene seems rather marginal for extreme cold, just as diesel seems rather marginal to use as a thinner in moderate cold.

That is correct and it's the main reason I started blending in the jetB [naphtha-kerosene] mix with the D1 winter diesel to mix with the VO. Our January D1 diesel does not start to gel until -40. I suspect that I could increase both the VO percent and the jetB percent and still run OK in a warm engine. My basic mix of 40%VO, 40%D1, 20% jetB works OK as a summer fuel, but needs to be diluted with D1 for sub zero winter temperatures.

Hey John, I am sure you have told us already, but how much naptha do you think is in your JetB? It is my understanding that naptha is the same thing that gasoline is, but without the additives. So, if there is enough naptha in your JetB, then there might not be a reason to add gasoline to your fuel mix. Also, it is my understanding that D1 is just D2 with kerosene added at some percentage, probably in your region it could be as high as 30%. So, there does not seem to be much reason to be adding D1 to your fuel mix.

So, yes, I agree you most probably could increase your VO component and reduce your D1 component by increasing the JetB in the winter time. In fact, since I have been running WVO blended with gasoline for a few years, I see no reason to use diesel at all. I am looking forward to reading more about your blending experiments in the tundra.

Yahoo, ride'm bio-fuelers away, Bio_cowboy

I live in Charlotte, NC but my wvo is all my big rigs are in Mauldin, SC.

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how much naptha do you think is in your JetB?

50-50 naphtha-kerosene

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Also, it is my understanding that D1 is just D2 with kerosene added at some percentage, probably in your region it could be as high as 30%. So, there does not seem to be much reason to be adding D1 to your fuel mix.

Not the case here where D1 IS kerosene with lubricity additives. That's why it's good to -40.

D2 is kerosene plus home heating oil with as much paraffin wax dissolved in it as the climate will allow. That's why it has a higher BTU value and gives more power. The wax starts to drop out of D2 at 0°C.

The refining process produces a continuous 'rainbow' of products from crude oil. The products can be wide cut like jetB containing everything from naphtha to kerosene as well as a bunch of other products commonly found in injection cleaners, or it can be narrow cut like gasoline. Diesel fuel typically contains fractions from kerosene to fuel oil and is seasonally adjusted for operating temperature.

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So, yes, I agree you most probably could increase your VO component and reduce your D1 component by increasing the JetB in the winter time.

Nope, not in the winter. The important factor with any blend is clean cold starts, not whether or not it will run in a hot engine.

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(JetB is) 50-50 naphtha-kerosene...Not the case here where D1 IS kerosene with lubricity additives. That's why it's good to -40.

OK John, so if your D1 is kerosene with lubricity additives, and your JetB is 50-50 naphtha-kerosene, and WVO has more lubricity than petroleum distillates, then it would seem that you could forgo the D1 in your blend as redundant and just find out how much WVO to JetB you need to run at -40F. So, if you have been running 40%VO, 40%D1, 20% jetB, then it seems that you could most probably run 40%VO, 60% jetB, or maybe 50/50, or 60/40.

Ride'm bio-fuelers, bio-cow_boy

More than 15% jetB vapor locks when heated in the FPHE.

Ok, John, I see the conflict now, 15% JetB being 50/50 Naptha, means you have 7% naptha, and those who blend gasoline (petrol) and have a heated fuel line find they get vapor lock if they go over 7%.

Yeah, that's the problem. Now that it's getting down to zero I'm going to try upping the jetB amount to see if the colder temperatures lets me use a higher percent without the vapor locking.