quote:

it sounds like you are using three barrels now with two pumps. Upflow barrel to settling barrel #1, pump through intermediate filter (20 micron) to settling barrel #2, pump through final filter (5 micron) for use/storage.

Yes. The added barrel gave me the opportunity to 'stockpile' oil when conditions were best for cold upflow.

here is my cold upflow settling system that I've begun to assemble over the holidays. The primary filtering unit is cross threaded but seems to be fine otherwise, no leaks.

cold_upflow_1.jpg (40 KB, 66 downloads) cold upflow 1

As you can see in the 2nd picture there is a leak at the output of the primary settling drum. I may need to redo this PVC elbow fitting with a liquid gasket such as "JB Weld". ?

cold_upflow_2.jpg (31 KB, 51 downloads)

and here's the output of the primary settling barrel into the secondary barrel. I will add a jean filter next. I don't foresee having the luxury of letting my cubees settle for any length of time. Also the temperature will often be above what is recommended so if I still have to do some "old school" dewatering it should go a lot faster anyhow. No doubt whatsoever that it'll be a lot better than simply pouring my cubees into the primary and then into the bio processor as I've been doing since I started brewing last spring. This is good oil however, clean and titrates at around 2.

This oil will be used for bio and blending in the Mercedes.

PS: I'd wanted bigger pictures, but with a 50k attachment limit I had to keep down sampling.

Regards,

cold_upflow_3.jpg (37 KB, 43 downloads)

That is basically the same as my setup, except my top tank is a 275 gallon tote with two 55 gallon drums as the upflow drums and a 275 gallon tote as the final holding tank.

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Originally posted by bmor: Also the temperature will often be above what is recommended so if I still have to do some "old school" dewatering it should go a lot faster anyhow.

I am in the same boat and while I nor anyone I know that has used this system has been able to achieve oil that passes the HPT, there is no doubt that it is highly effective in significantly reducing the drying time by other methods.

With the settling I was able to halve my drying time. I'm looking at adding some old solar panels into the loop so I can reduce the drying time even further.

If I can find another IBC tank in time, I aim to stockpile enough oil over the summer to last me through the winter so I don't have to do any drying or filtering in the less opportune months.

Cutting the drying time in half will be good. What'll also be nice is reducing that smell, you know, that stench that stings and waters your eyes.

The oil coming off the upflow barrel will usually be dry enough to pass the HPT, or if not then it's easy to add a wrap of ice-melt cable and insulation around the 2nd [storage] barrel to settle any remaining moisture as free water.
If the upflow is warm enough for the PHO and fats to melt then the water associated with them is more difficult to remove.

quote:

Originally posted by bmor:
As you can see in the 2nd picture there is a leak at the output of the primary settling drum. I may need to redo this PVC elbow fitting with a liquid gasket such as "JB Weld". ?

So any suggestions on making these fittings liquid tight? I hate oil spills. I just re-did the connections with Oatey PVC cement and primer, although I know this is not intended for threaded fittings. Pink teflon tape didn't work. It appears the problem area is where I've tapped into the barrels bung. (3/4" threaded connector).

I HP tested a small sample (1 cup) out of the top of my 2nd (storage) barrel today. No snap, crackle, or pops at all and maybe 5 small bubbles when the oil first hit the pan. I'm thinking this is either dry or very close to it.
It's 6 celcius here today.
One solution I have found through searches is to use silicone sealant on barrel bungs to reduce leaking.

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So any suggestions on making these fittings liquid tight? It appears the problem area is where I've tapped into the barrels bung. (3/4" threaded connector).

In the picture it looks like the PVC elbow prevents the threaded connection from screwing into the bung fitting far enough to make the threads tight enough not to leak.

quote:

Originally posted by bmor:
I HP tested a small sample (1 cup) out of the top of my 2nd (storage) barrel today. No snap, crackle, or pops at all and maybe 5 small bubbles when the oil first hit the pan. I'm thinking this is either dry or very close to it.
It's 6 celcius here today.

Others have reported similar results when it's cold enough for the upflow to separate out the PHO and fats which absorb and hold water.

Those who have problems with cold upflow are operating at temperatures warm enough to keep the PHO and fats dissolved in the oil, and in that case evenly heating the 2nd storage barrel to at least 40°C then settling while it slowly cools appears to be necessary to settle the water out.

I did another HPT yestersday, this time about 2 or 3 cups, passed again. At what point (temp) does the product stop separating? I'd guess in the springtime here in Vancouver.

I'll take a closer look at the fitting, thanks.

Experiment with samples of your oil in the fridge to find the temperature that the PHO and fats separate. For my oil it's below 10°C.

It's a pleasant warm day here today, about 35oC and I have just put my second batch of 150L in my Dryer/ processor. The first one I checked at the 45 min mark and it passed the HPT so I gave it the full hour just to be pedantic.

It's supposed to be a bit on the hot side this weekend, up to 45oC predicted so it will be good for oil processing to put away for winter.
As it gets cold, there will be some fats that drop out but that doesn't matter a lot anyway.

There will still be clear oil on the top of the drums and I am fortunate that my car will run on the creamy fats without problem anyhow if need be. Generally I leave these fats till summer when they return to liquid and use them then. My car will warm up sufficiently to melt these fats that are dissolved in the clearer oil before they block the filters and once the temp of the HE hits around 40 which is the melting point of the fats, it's all liquid fuel anyway.

For me, I'd much rather be able to do 300L in 2 hours by jet drying than having to heat and settle drums and remember to turn off the heaters etc. Each to their own but if you can't quite get your oil dry by settling, there are always the conventional methods that will become much more efficient when the oil has had a head start from the settling to begin with and are likely to be more energy efficient than running heaters for 24 hours or more.

As I am multipass filtering the oil while it is drying, I am getting a very good product with minimal time and energy investment thanks to the settling.

I like the sound of that set up DCS. One similar would work in my warm climate as well.

Hey John I've been reading about your cold upflow system over the past months and while I understand the overall design/process, I did have a few questions I hope you don't mind answering.

When you fill up the first 55 gallon drum, I take it there is some settling time before you can start to use the output from the overflow valve? Are we talking days, weeks. I know it depends on the quality of WVO but what would be a good starting point.

If the above answer was say 1 month, does this mean that the next batch of oil you put in yields the same amount of 1 month old oil coming out of the valve?

I guess the first 55 gallons of WVO doesn't start to pay off untill you start going over that amount? Seems like you would always be behind 55 gallons?

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When you fill up the first 55 gallon drum, I take it there is some settling time before you can start to use the output from the overflow valve? Are we talking days, weeks. I know it depends on the quality of WVO but what would be a good starting point.

I suggest a week, then sample the output with a Moisture Test to see if more settling is required.

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If the above answer was say 1 month, does this mean that the next batch of oil you put in yields the same amount of 1 month old oil coming out of the valve?

Let's use one week for example with a 55 gallon upflow barrel. That's 55/7 or adding about 8 gallons per day after the initial week of start=up settling, would mean that the oil coming off the top had settled for a week.

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Originally posted by artesp:
I guess the first 55 gallons of WVO doesn't start to pay off untill you start going over that amount? Seems like you would always be behind 55 gallons?

For the oil I get which I think is overall quite good, I would want to settle at least a month. I don't think cold would make anything drop out faster than a system in a warmer environment, just make the oil more water and fat free. Again with the oil I get, a weeks settling time would make no difference to the water content.

When I started off my upflow I already had a good amount of oil that had been sitting in drums for 3 months+ so I pulled the good stuff off those drums and started my 1000L IBC off with that. Just the volume of Oil I use meant that the oil would be in the upflow for at least 4 months plus whatever pre settle time it had in the drums I store it in when I collect it.

I believe the oil John adds to his upflow system has already had a good long time to stand so that certainly counts towards the total settling time and is significant in the process.

I am a firm believer in building a good reserve of oil so you can settle it for a good long while. Upflow doesn't do anything to the oil itself that regular settling won't do, it's just a continuous process rather than a batch one.

Also bear in mind the settling just reduces the load on your filters making them last longer and reduces the water content. The key to getting the cleanest oil to start with before filtering is not upflow, it's just settling of any kind. The longer the settle time, the cleaner and dryer ( to a point) the oil.

I don't understand the idea that "your always behind 55 gal" or as someone here says of my system, "You have to put 1000L in before you get 1L out"
Ummmm? So what? The oil dosent go anywhere, you still have the same amount of oil in storage you collected and if you needed this oil, you could pump it out and filter it the same as you were probably doing before you went to an upflow system.

I have 1000L sitting in my upflow tank and about another 4000 in other IBC's and 205L standard drums. So what if there is 1000L in the upflow tank, its there just the same as the rest of it but overall it's cleaner.

quote:

I believe the oil John adds to his upflow system has already had a good long time to stand so that certainly counts towards the total settling time and is significant in the process.

I am a firm believer in building a good reserve of oil so you can settle it for a good long while. Upflow doesn't do anything to the oil itself that regular settling won't do, it's just a continuous process rather than a batch one.

Really good points and I agree completely.

There's no such thing a too much settling. [OK maybe there is, I've been tripped up by absolute statements before, but in my experience there isn't.]