Cold Upflow Settling discussed at:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...&r=38010602#38010602

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john galt,

Thanks John, I like the proccess. do you have a possum mobil? when you temps are 70degrees, approx how many gal per hour do you regulate thru your valve on the 10 gal bucket? If I read your post correctly, you blend only with 50% ULSD? The only fear i have is, my wvo is not good enough for this . I think my 1st drum would get too thick of gunk at bottom too quickly. (a steep cone bottom at 1st drum would be the ticket for me.) And lastly what is the quickest way to light your sawdust/gunk log? detinator cord? Or do you start off with a real hot wood fire first?

I put the sawdust/oil brick on a hot fire; it burns much cleaner that way. I never tried det cord, the results would be interesting and no doubt spectacular.

If cold upflow settling does not produce clear dry oil for your 'WVO' and your specific conditions then heated upflow settling may work for you.

Those like Ron Schroeder who developed heated upflow settling know that even heating and good insulation are essential.

Here's his description of the system he has used for nearly 30 years.

quote:

I have a trouble free settling system that gets me more than 1000 gallons thru a 2 micron Racor filter element.

My settling tank is very evenly heated and well insulated. I introduce the oil into the bottom of the tank slowly to not stir up the oil already in the tank. The outlet is about 6" from the TOP of the tank so I am only draining the top 10% of the oil in the tank. The outlet gravity flows thru the 2 micron filter into my storage tank. If I put 5 gallons into the tank a day, it takes over a week for that oil to work it's way up to the outlet. by that time almost all of the water and solids have settled out. I get over 1000 gallons thru the filtering station filter and I have NEVER had to replace an in the car WVO filter even after 70,000 miles on WVO.

I use a settling tank that has a little more capacity than the amount of oil I use in a week. With PHO Soy, I ran a little over 120F in the settling tank and about 80 in the storage tank (I am intentionally keeping the animal fat clear). With Canola, I am running about 100F.

No problems with polymerization.

I can heat it either with hot water from my boiler or with electricity. The tank is wrapped with PEX pipe with a spacing of about 3" turn to turn and is also wrapped with ice melt cable between the PEX turns.

The water loop is fed from a tempering valve so a constant water temperature is circulated around the settling tank. The circulating pump that I am using only draws 5 watts.

The electric heat is controlled by a proportional controller rather than an on/off controller. Once up to temperature, it takes less than 60 watts to maintain temperature. With good enough insulation a 60 to 80 foot ice melt cable will get you over 200F. That temperature will probably damage the cable. I have had no problems up to 150F.

Normally I just use the circulating hot water heat.

I also heat the incoming waste oil with an inline thermostatically controlled electric heater (like a 120V version of a veggietherm) to the same temperature as the tank so there is no temperature differential between the incoming oil and the oil already in the tank.

My in home filtering has been working so well that I used a stock fuel filter for WVO on my last WVO conversion ('85 MB 300D)


Ron
'85 300D
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Several generators
Kubota Tractor

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john galt,

i guess what i dont understand about your process is a friend of mine settles oil for 3 weeks before pumping the useable stuff off the top but yours is settling faster how is that?
I am filtering oil right now through some linen over a 25 g clear plastic tub and its just dripping , maybe 2 g. per hour . I'm fine wih that as long as i can pour 5 g. in at a time and walk away for a few hours I'm going build a frame to hold my pre-filter fabric so I can pour 10g in at a time. how long does it take the water and snot to fall to the bottom in your system ?

I think I'm gonna do this. But just to be clear, John, you do not wash & the final, upflowed, oil passes the hot pan test?

Yes, that is correct.

john once I get my first 55g load of oil in the processor is there a recommended time to settle it before pouring anymore in ?

Wait a few days, pour a gallon of oil into the processor, then check the oil coming out for moisture. If it's wet wait longer, if it's dry you're good to go. As you start using the upflow settling system, measure the moisture content of the oil coming out to determine the necessary retention time for the specific oil you're processing. I run about 10 gal per day, which gives about 5 days settling, for clear dry oil.

do you think the process would be more efficient if I stack two 55 gallon drums . Hopefully allowing me to use more oil per week and work the gravity angle even harder.

Yes, I would think so.

i think so too and wrap the top tank bottom with a heat strip thinning the oil in the top drum causing the particulate to fall to the cooler bottom tank . any suggestions or criticizms

John. Nice system.
Now am i correct in reading that you never
use 100% Svo. Just a mix of dino and svo.
I am designing my system now (merc 300 sd on the way). Would this work with svo/wvo if i can keep it warm enough? This would be the key so i am designing a greenhouse and solar with the ability to shut of the power(sun) when need be.

I use the upflow system to clean and dewater recycled canola 100% VO. I dilute the clean 100% VO 50-50 with ULSD before it goes through the final filter.

I built an upflow settling unit last week, and filled it to the top of the settling drum and it has sat for a week. Today I added about 10 gallons and opened the ball valve so the oil trickels into the collection drum. The question I have is: what is keeping the oil from the top container from seeping between the muffler pipe and the pipe nipple? (it is not a tight fit) I had the muffler guy swedge the end so it would sit on the nipple by gravity. Does it sound like I have done it correctly?

On my upflow barrel the flared exhaust pipe fits tight enough in the 2" pipe that very little leakage will occur. The path of least resistance is down the 2" hole not through the thin crack around it.

How does the oil coming off the top test for dry?

quote:

Originally posted by bigdingo:
do you think the process would be more efficient if I stack two 55 gallon drums . Hopefully allowing me to use more oil per week and work the gravity angle even harder.

I was thinking of doing this for some friends if I can't find a suitable size hot water tank. On the water heater I was using before, I simply pumped in from the bottom to push out the clean oil out from the top. There were no pipes running internally from top to bottom to complicate things.

If you used the 205L drums, my thoughts were to cut the bottoms out of both drums and weld them together there so you have the original fittings to use at the top and bottom. You have one fitting for filling the drum from the bottom, one for draining off the crud every so often and a fitting at the top to connect your output hose to.

As the tank will be quite tall, you will have to push the oil in with the aid of a pump. On my water heater setup, I used a $15 marine bilge pump in a plastic bucket which I filled from the cubees I collected the oil in. Because the pump is pushing against the head pressure of the tanks, the output is quite slow which is just what you want to avoid stirring the bottom layer as much as possible.

I would drain my hot water tank almost every day to keep all the crud at a minimum. Just a liter or two till I saw the fat change to oil. I gave this to a friend who would heat it, filter it and dry it and then make bio from it. No waste at all!

I wouldn't bother adding a heating element. If you leave it long enough, ( a month in my case) the top oil is just beautiful on its own. I found a month was a good time for the oil I got so if you use up to 400L a month, you'd be right with a double barrel arrangement and if you need more, you could perhaps add a 3rd drum or if that's a bit tall for you, make up a second double drum setup and T the 2 setups together which will give you double the capacity with only a few extra fittings needed. I like to have a reserve myself as a buffer to make sure things are right and so I have plenty in reserve to help out friends that are always running short.

If it is possible at all to get oil out of this setup that will pass a hot pan test, you will need it settling for a lot longer than a month so if you are not going to dry the oil after settling, I would be aiming for the longest settling time possible to reduce the water content as much as possible.

I have just gone to a double IBC setup which with my current use, will give me 10 months settling time. As I have filled my IBC's and still have the better part of 2000L settling in 205L drums, and will continue to presettle / store my newly collected oil in those, I can see the oil I put away today not being put into my car till somewhere around new years.... 2010!

Thats the problem we are trying to overcome ,different oil , source , location , vehicles . But trying to develop a one size fits all easy solution for processing.
I think it will happen if it hasnt already. I'm hoping on combining two techniques the (1)upflow and (2) heat to give me usable oil in a week or month at most . The plan now is to stack the drums with the top one upside down and connect them with plumbing fittings. Paint the top drum black and maybe the top 1/3 of the bottom . I am hoping that the heated thinner oil on top will cause heavy and wet components to drop out of solution into the cool oil on the bottom .. I need practical input on this idea . I live in louisiana and any thing painted flat black would be hot 9 months out of the year. Will convection kill this idea ? If I have a two tank system and switch back to dino at shut down protect me from water problems?

Those like Ron Schroeder who have good success with heated upflow settling know that even heating and good insulation are essential.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/15960555...241093981#2241093981

The messages at the link describe the system Ron has used for many years.

Solar heating on a dark barrel is usually quite uneven, as a result it stirs the oil and makes water separation more difficult.

John,

Thanks for the link to my HPT.........

Sorry for the mundane voice.

That oil went through a few freeze/thaw cycles and the sludge is quite thick at the bottom of those cubies. As you could see, the oil was quite wet. And, that was drawing from the top inch of the oil level.

I understand you get great results from your upflow system.

Any thoughts from anyone as to why this oil that was sitting undisturbed for a year was so wet at the top?? I was frankly shocked that the 1st cubie was so wet.

C.

I was also surprised by the moisture levels in apparently well settled samples. I'm wondering if the source and the use period of the oil could be a factor. How does the oil titrate? I suspect it has high FFA levels, and it's known that FFAs, animal fats and PHOs absorb and retain moisture. Asian cooking is known to produce fat, wet, salty, well used oil.

Consider taking a sample off the top, titrating it, and if it comes out high then do a water wash with bicarbonate of soda to neutralize the FFAs. Observe any change in the color of the settled wash water or oil, and after a week test the top layer of settled oil for moisture and titration value.

My VO is much lighter in color, more like honey, titrates around 2 and has only been used one week for fish and potatoes. I also cold process. I find that between 30°F and 40°F is the best temperature to process recycled canola. The layer of crud and moisture is solid in the bottom of the cubie and it's easy to pour off the clear drier oil.

I admire how you stayed with the script, with a calm reassuring voice, heating oil to smoking temperatures, while fire sirens wailed in the background.