My centrifuge won't be on the truck, it will be part of my "garage fuel refinery" LOL. Basically the last step before the fuel goes into the vehicle.

Mechanical centrifuge bowls -- There are "the bowl only" available from some of the small motor-driven centrifuge manufacturers, the bowls cost far less than the entire centrifuge units. They seem to be designed to fit on motor shafts that are threaded but I really did not look that closely at them, still, a fast way to build a centrifuge and since they have already been proven to work I think I would go this route since I don't have access to a large enough lathe, seems like it may also be safer than turning one out myself, probably also cheaper once you have to buy the huge chunk of aluminum to make it from.

I have so far found 3 small manufacturers of motor driven centrifuges designed to clean veg.


http://www.absolutecentrifuge.com/

http://www.simplecentrifuge.com/

http://www.wvodesigns.com/

Tim,

Not sure I get your logic, how could it be cheaper? The manufactured bowls I've seen are turned from a solid chunk, I'd never trust a casting. I have a 20" swing lathe at work, it'll make short work of a chunk of aluminum or stainless for that matter. Last time I made a coater roller on that machine it was a 4" diameter that I had to cut 1" journals on each end, 303 stainless, I was hogging nearly and inch of the OD on the roughing passes. Big chips, I call them clinky chips cause of the sound they make when they land. Sometimes a company will order less than a full blank round of stainless or aluminum, what is left is called the drop, I've asked for a short drop if one becomes available. These are generally cheaper as few people have a use for them. Talking with my machinist buddies the suggestion is to bore and key the blank for a shaft then install a shaft and turn it between centers on the shaft so it stays nicely balanced. This way I can turn the inside and the outside in one setup. My plan is to use a bearing above and below the bowl, with the top bearing attached to the collector box cover, this will slide up and off and the bowl can then be removed for cleaning. I've got some 1/4" plate I'm gonna use for the box for rigidity as well as containment in the event of a bowl failure. Something like the bowl and box from simplecentrifuge.com

The "WVOdesigns" guys sell a finished bowl for $200.00, and a finished bowl with it's required smooth shaft mounting clamp and a seal for the motor shaft for $250.00, I guess if you don't count the several hours of machining time, or the cost of a 8-9 inch diameter by 5 inch long chunk of 6061 aluminum needed for the bowl blank, than it would be cheaper to turn your own? It also helps to have access to that big of a lathe.

None of these 3 units use anything but the motor shaft bearings to support the bowl, seems like this would be a much simpler design rather than a separate bowl shaft and the bearings and mounts that approeach would require?

Tim,

Yeah it's easier to use the motor shaft but I have my reasons. I work for an adhesives and coatings company, I've worked my way up to sales manager but I used to be the guy that designed and built a lot of our equipment which includes mixers. On large mixers we put the mixing shaft on separate bearings and belt drive it, this saves a lot of vibration on the motor shaft. Also C-face motors like the one I'm using aren't made for heavy side loads so vibrations could quickly kill the bearings with the weight of a bowl spinning around on it. I want to build up to a 14-16" bowl depending on the blank I get. I figure larger diameter means more throughput. By having a bearing on top and bottom it may be more complex but should also be very dependable and durable, plus I get the option of changing pulleys for more or less speed than the variable speed motor can provide. Remember to that all the parts except the bowl are from the junk bin at work so it doesn't cost me anything to over engineer it. Machining time is therapeutic for me, solitary time away from the kids and saving money always is. Love the kids but have to get away from them at times.

Well after several issues I've got the van back on the road. I had a bad Holley pump that I'm using as a lift pump, the motor siezed on it. I'm gonna take the old one apart and see what caused the failure. The new IP is working great but I still need to get it timed as well as adjust the FIPL which senses throttle position for the transmission control. At least it's running again, been a rough couple of weeks without it.

I still haven't gotten a call from my metal supplier on a blank for the centifuge but I do have the lathe all set up and ready to go. I wrote some G-code for the CNC mill as well, been tempted to hog out the center and rough in the OD on the mill since it can run unattended. I made a bottom plate on the CNC to mount up the C-face motor as well as the bowl shaft and bearings. Since I'm cheap I've decided to make the bowl out of steel then likely put a coating or paint on it that will stand up to WVO, WMO, etc. Tempted just to spin it at low speed and spray something on like maybe a two part epoxy, this would keep it balanced. Alternately I could get it plated at the place the company has stuff plated. I've now got over 100 gallons of WMO filtered and dewatered waiting on the centrifuge to be completed.

Well the engine's running great on both D2 as well as WMO/D2 blends. I've got a tranny issue though, seems I've got a sensor or something burned out as the trans doesn't seem to be getting anything from the PCM. In "2" it's in second gear, D is third, Reverse, Neutral and Park work fine but it won't shift on its own, won't go into 1 or 4 and the OD switch does nothing. These are all signs of something electrical burned out. Can't help but wonder if I didn't fry something when I welded up my new rear bumper. For most of the welding I had the batteries disconnected but I had a little touch up to do with the Mig and shortly thereafter the trans went into "limp mode" I've been posting over at the diesel stop dot com but haven't gotten much help.

Bummer about the trans, glad to hear the engine is up and running well.

What approach did you go with on the injection pump, did you have your local guy rebuild one or did you buy one from some other rebuilder. Any concrete conclusions about problems with the one that did not run?

I bought one from an online rebuilder in arizona. They dismantled my core to determine if it was rebuildable which it was. It was as my local rebuilder suggested, the transfer pump which is rotary vane style was worn and not allowing enough internal pressure. They indicated it was age related and a common problem with these pumps.

Given that knowledge I am going to be extra careful with WMO blends. While I had not been running WMO long enough to cause this damage I can certainly see how metal contaminates could wear out this portion of the pump over time. I'm working on some sort of magnet filtration prior to putting WMO in my settling barrel, this will get any iron out of the setup. I believe a proper centrifuge will get any other metallics out.

The trans is not physically damaged. It's operating in a mode normal for it when it is not recieving power. Given the overall condition of the wiring on this van I am not at all surprised by this. I have replaced several common sensors and I will be getting a wiring diagram today to further diagnose it.

I'm waiting to get a dieselcraft at tax refund.I stopped burning it,and I used 3 filters,pumped the top,magnict bottom of drum.Then final 5 micron filter.

Internal rotary vane transfer pump - Interesting, the Bosh VE injection pump on my Dodge uses the same type setup, I thought that might be the problem with my pump also but now I dought it, I forgot to turn on the Mallory electric pusher pump that I added at the hundred gallon tank in the truck bed (bypassed the stock diaphragm lift pump), the engine started and ran fine even though the IP internal rotary pump was having to draw fuel through the electric pump gears as well as a couple of filters and 10 ft of 3/8 ID fuel hose, a lot of suck for an old pump, sure surprised me when I realized that the supply pump was not turned on.

Anyone have any dead Mallory gerotor pumps, this experiance makes me think they could be modified to use as precision fuel volume flow sensors, PM me.

Trans - not familiar with your vehicle but I rewired my 92 dodge to eliminate the computer controlling the trans (OD only, no lockup converter, but that can be rewired also), never could get the throttle sensor to stay adjusted and it always shifted in/out of overdrive at the wrong time, did some rewiring to fool the computer and put an manual OD switch on the dash. Only thing I lost is the automatic downshift from OD for a pass, that never worked right anyway either.

Didn't realize Malolory pumps were gerotor, have you been happy with them? I haven't been happy with the Holley on this one nor anywhere else I've run a Holley.

As for the trans, I'd love to rewire it to be a push button setup, kinda like the old manual valvebodies. I got codes that suggest nothing in the trans is working which makes me suspect the connector on the transmission.

Mallory pumps - I have only been using these for this last 1500 mile trip, I have both a smaller 4070 model pump and a larger 4110 model pump. The 70 G/H pump is fitted with there smaller electric motor that uses internal brushes, this pump turns faster than the larger one but the smaller motor has a lot less torque, this smaller motor has been stalled a couple times by some sort of tiny grit getting into the gears, when I opened up the pump to clean it what ever was causing the problem was so tiny I could not even see it. The pumps are easy enough to open up but the small motor with the internal brushes seems to NOT have enough torque for veg use. The larger motor with replacable external brushes is more than up to the torque requierments but for our heavy fuel use I find it is best to run it at a reduced voltage as it gets hot moving thick oil, the slower speed also allows more time for the thicker oil to flow into the gears. Others on the forums have said these pumps burn up regularly when pumping veg and I suspect that is true if you power them with full voltage and use a model that pumps way more oil than is needed, these will simply circulate a lot of oil past the internal pressure regulator and this will create added heat. I added three 50 watt .5 ohm resisters in series with the 12 volt power line and this dropped the voltage applied to the motor to around 10 volts (didn't know how much resistance would be needed, turns out 1.5 ohms (calculated wattage is 24, use a resistor that has a larger wattage rating than that, 50 watts would be reliable) put 10 volts on the motor when the alternator was putting out 14 volts, pump still runs fine even on 8 volts with 12 volts from the battery. The amps drawn is around 4 when with 14 volts total applied.), at this voltage the motor was only slightly warm to the touch even after running continuously for 12 hours in 100 deg weather. My first gen Cummins does not circulate a lot of fuel back to the tank, it burns under 4 G/H and returns maybe another 8 G/H to the tank so the pump only needs to supply around 12 G/H, the 110 G/H rating of the pump is based on open head pressure with gasoline, have not actually measured the full flow with warm veg yet but I am sure it is way more than 12 G/H even whan powered with 10 volts but the motor stays cool enough with 10 volts applied and it also has so far had adequate torque, never stalled once so far.

Both these pumps are the low pressure model, they have built in bypass pressure regulators that make around 5 pounds pressure with gasoline or between 8 to 12 pounds pressure when pumping thicker veg. You can change the spring in the regulator so they will produce what ever pressure you want up to around 80 pounds pressure. They sell these same pumps for fuel injected engine use, they just put a length of solid rod in place of the spring so the ragulator is blocked off, you can do the same thing and then add an external bypass regulator anyplace before the injector pump input.

I think I will eventually go this route as it allows the pump to create whatever pressure is needed to push oil through the filters as they clog but you still get the correct regulated pressure at the IP input, should make filters last a bit longer before needing to be replaced and also always insures the correct pressure into the IP.

Based on this experiance I also now intend to run a seperate pump for each tank and use low crack pressure spring loaded hydraulic check valves rather than solenoud selector valves to control fuel selection flow from each tank. This approach will also only require one external pressure regulater placed after the check valves but before the IP. (The electric pumps also help with starting on my well worn IP, it gets full input pressure before the engine cranks, with the stock diaphragm lift pump there is no lift pump pressure til the engine starts)

mallory_pump_size_comparison_-_L_4070_-_R_4110.JPG (24 KB, 19 downloads)

This shows the resistors I am using with the 4110 pump.

malloty_4110_pump_with_three_half_ohm_resistors.JPG (26 KB, 18 downloads)

This shows the gears in the Mallory pumps, both pumps gears are the same diameter but the larger pump's gears are longer. you can see this in the "comparison" picture, the section just below the motor is noticably taller on the 4110 pump than it is on the 4070 pump.

rotors_in_4070_mallory_pump_2.JPG (12 KB, 15 downloads)

Tim,

Great info on the pumps! I think I'll definately go with the 4110 and the resistor when this Holley dies.

I got a replacement trans, oh what a joy. It's a 92 and my van is a 91. The connectors where different AND there was no drive gear machined into the tailshaft for the speedo, the hole for the cable was there though. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to use the rear diff sensor to signal the TCM to control shifts like the 92 and up did. The trouble is they had a PSOM (programmable speedometer odometer module) that splits the signal to the speedo, ABS, and the TCM. I can't easily swap dash parts because my van is the last year for the old body. I'm sure I'll get it sorted though.

The old trans is total toast, completely burned up and full of metal powder. Converter looks discolored as well which gave me a great idea. Torque converters are DESIGNED to spin with oil in them, why not gut it, cut an opening on one side to be the top of my centrifuge and machine a hole to run a shaft to drive it! May take a little work getting the fins out etc but it's free and I wanna look inside anyway LOL.

Well I'm definately going to look at the torque converter as a cheap way to build a centrifuge. I've learned that they aren't that great on these trucks anyway and my future plans are to put in a heavy duty towing converter. My plans for next weekend are to set it up in my big lathe and cut about an 8" hole in the side that faces the trans. Then I can use a boring bar to gut the fins out of it. Finally I'll bore it for a shaft and put a keyway in it. I picked up a cheap motor so I'm just gonna direct drive from the motor shaft. For a housing I've got a steel drum that I'm gonna cut, shorten and reweld. It's got a removeable top. This will make it easy to weld in bungs to drain and clean it etc. I'm gonna tilt it slightly in relation to the converter and motor so it drains to one side. I'll have a small hole in the top for my feed tube.

After much trial and tribulation including a later model electronic speedo spliced in I finally have the van running again.

Tim C cook - That is great information on the Mallory pumps. I am looking lower priced but reliable options for HD electric pumps ( vs FASS and Raptor) .

rsr911- Please take and post pics/videos of your CF project .

- Thanks

Well the torque converter idea is likely out of the question, at least without a lot of work. I knew there would be fins inside but not this many and not so well attached. I've attached a picture to show what I'm talking about. That's a 12.5" converter chucked up in my lathe by the way, don't let the wrenches on the wall behind it fool you, not a one under 1". I'm gonna work at it a little more tomorrow and maybe I may still go this route, not certain yet. I used a 3/4" boring bar to get this far on it.

cut_converter1_small.jpg (28 KB, 17 downloads) bored out torque converter

Well maybe the torque converter isn't out of the question after all. I was able to get some shop time in tonight and removed a lot more material. I may need to get in there carefully with a grinder or torch and cut the rotor so I can get it out of the hole I cut which is about 7 inches. I'll keep you guys updated.