I was wondering how blending with E85 would workout. K1 is way too expensive ($6/gal) here in NM and E85 should be as good a thinner as K1. From what I’ve read, alcohol and diesels go together very well. They have converted diesel engines to run on just E85 also. On my 99 PSD I blend in %8 RUG (two tank system – HOH with electrically heated manifold). 97 MB blend 10 gal WVO, 1 gal Rug, 4 gal diesel and sometimes 4oz shot of turp. I’m thinking of trying 10 gal WVO and 3 gal of E85 in the MB.

The blend you indicated has way too much E85, from my testing WVO will only accept about 10% of its volume as alcohol even when warm, the excess alcohol just won't blend into the oil and floats on top. As the blend cools the veg won't accept as much alcohol as when warm so you may get some amount of free alcohol released by the blend as it cools down on a cool evening. Free alcohol is BAD for injection pumps, it has almost no lubricity, the only good thing is that it floats ON TOP of the oil so is less likely to get pulled through the fuel pickup in the bottom of the tank, unless - the tank is about empty, or you are splashing the fuel around in the tank a lot.

Try a small test in a glass jar, I measured the height of the veg that I first put in the glass, I then added enough E85 to equal twice that height, then measured the amount of alcohol that was floating over the veg after allowing it to settle over night, this will give you an idea of how much alcohol will stay in the blend. There should be a knife-edge sharp seperation between the oil and the alcohol (I suspect the veg held on to the 15% gasoline but don't know for sure).

I seized the rod in a chainsaw running E85 without adding extra lube oil into the fuel blend, apparently the E85 does not have anywhere near the lubricity of even gasoline.

Gasoline blends with veg just fine at any reasonable amount and is not much more costly than E85. About all gasoline these days has around 10% ethanol blended in it even if the pump does not say anything about it so blending with gasoline does add some alcohol.

I wouldn't use any amount of E85 in a diesel engine.
Kerosene is also sold as 'stove oil' for Monitor and Toyo brand heaters, and stove oil is usually less cost than kerosene.

IMHO you are just asking for trouble using E85.

I had some problems a few month back which I traced to the E10 I had blended with. I didn't think it would be enough alcohol to cause problems but I proved myself wrong. The problem is the ethanol has a boiling point around 20o C lower than Petrol and on my setup, that was enough to make a big Difference. My system is heated but my wife just runs blend in her car with no mods at all and the ethanol can still cause rough idling and starvation if the car has been sitting at the lights a while. This happens even in winter due to the under bonnet temps and heat soak. In summer it would be a real show stopper.

Despite all the hype, I have come to the conclusion that ethanol is a poor motor fuel. In different equipment I have had trouble with water being absorbed into the fuel, seals and diaphragms being badly effected and other suspected problems that have disappeared when I went back to straight petrol. Lots of people want to champion the stuff due to supposedly being renewable and clean and all that But despite being skeptical of the negativity initially, I have come to find it is certainly not without basis.

I scored some fuel when some tanks at a Marina a friend works at were being emptied for refurbishment this week and in the several hours I was there talking to the guy's who pump the tanks and the fella's that repair them, their separate stories of the effects on fuel handling systems they had seen that had been caused by ethanol would make anyone steer well clear of it.
The owner of the tank reconditioning business thought the introduction of E85 here was going to make him a very wealthy man and has invested heavily in equipment to be able to service the demand when it surely arises.

I had already come to the conclusion that it is best avoided for all my purposes including blending. I do not think that something like E85 would mix real well with oil at all and at a bare minimum would strongly advise you do some through tests in jars before you add it to your tank.
I would not be the least surprised to find it separates if it blended very well at all in the first place.

I recommend you give this idea away and stick with regular, ethanol free unleaded.

Wow, thanks for the info. Didn't find much on the blend and now it doesn't sound like a good idea. I'll stick to RUG and dino diesel. I'll call around to see if I can find stove fuel, but its price needs to be at or lower than RUG and/or diesel.

In speaking with my local wholesale farm fuel supplier they indicated that all gasoline now distributed here in the states contains some percentage of ethanol, usually 10%, even if the don't advertise it (some states now allow 20%). He finally decided to just not mention it to his customers, once he stopped telling folks the gasoline was blended with ethanol most of the complaints that the alcohol was causing problems went away?

Yes, alcohol can cause problems on older vehicles that don't have alcohol resistant rubber components but biodiesel can cause the same problems. from reading, any vehicle since 2000 should have alcohol safe components.

I don't add any heat to my blends so I assume that is why I have never had any vaporlock problem blending with E10 RUG, never experianced any problems at idle either.

"stove oil" (more refined than K1 kerosene, used in wick-fed heaters) is actually more expensive than kerosene around here. I occasionally collect old home heating fuel when folks convert to gas heating, this old fuel is basically off-road diesel, once it is cleaned it works fine for blending if the final blend ends up being dark enough that the red dye is not obvious.

The only other fuel that I know of that is cheaper than RUG is STALE RUG, usually free if you can find it. This is even better than new RUG for blending as most of the very thin and volital components that the rug originally contained have already evaporated away. Some folks have said they collect it from boat refueling stations, others say they get it from auto salvage yards?

You used to be able to collect jet fuel from airports, they waste a lot of it doing tests for water or dirt in the fuel tanks and flight line delivery trucks, you had to make some back door contacts to get it. - BUT - from recent reading it appears that it is now against federal law for any of this fuel to leave the airport, they have to burn it on site.

quote:

In speaking with my local wholesale farm fuel supplier they indicated that all gasoline now distributed here in the states contains some percentage of ethanol, usually 10%..
"stove oil" (more refined than K1 kerosene, used in wick-fed heaters) is actually more expensive than kerosene around here.

Which goes to show how much regional variation there is with fuels. Here most gasoline does not contain ethanol and bulk stove oil is cheaper than kerosene. This is an international forum, one must always check with local conditions. One can't necessarily believe that what one reads will be the same where they live.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim c cook:

I don't add any heat to my blends so I assume that is why I have never had any vaporlock problem blending with E10 RUG, never experianced any problems at idle either.

One other thing to remember here is that Vacuum will also lower the boiling point of a fluid and pressure will increase it. The fuel system on my vehicles is for the most part under vacuum and for the minor part, at very low pressure. Once a vapor has boiled off, it dosen't necessarily all re condense under pressure.

If a car had a Lift pump at the tank that kept the fuel under some pressure all the way, that would be helpful. On my cars it's the other way around which is certainly less than ideal in this circumstance. This is just one reason why some people may find no problem with it and others might.

By design, the MB fuel system automatically puts a lot of heat into the fuel and this too is less than ideal in this situation. After an hours drive, the fuel in the tank of my wifes car which is stock, can easily reach 30-40 oC so it would have to be getting a fair bit hotter than that somewhere along the line. Other vehicles may put far less warmth into their fuel which would be helpful in avoiding vapor problems.

In this situation, a few degrees can mean the difference between smooth going and problems.

I have run 100% vo during this hot summer. This month as morning temps taper off my truck is requiring more effort to start. I am seriously considering adding 5% or 10% of gross to be E85 as part of my blend for the cooler weather coming since several of my local stations now carry it.

The above posts sound discouraging of E85.I am not convinced a small % use is bad.
Anyone else try any in their fuel?

Do a small test using your oil, blend 50/50 veg and E85 and see how much of the E85 the oil can absorb. As the temps go down so does the amount of E85 that will stay blended in the oil.

I believe neutral has stated that vo can absorb just under 9% ethanol.

The pumps are labeled "E85 to contain a minimum of 70% ethanol". I read this to mean the fuel contains at least 70% ethanol and at most 85% ethanol ( it cannot be 100% because of denaturing requirements in the US).

I do not expect a max 10% of the mix to exceed the vo's absorbtion.
I have some at 10% in a refrigerator now, no noticeable separation after a week.