I am seriously considering switching from making biodiesel to running a blend this summer. I have a '02 7.3L Powerstroke. It seems some are saying blending is great while others swear it off. The biggest thing I am hearing is that with a cold engine I will get the blend blowing past my piston rings and contaminating my crankcase. I am looking for other opinions. Wouldn't biodiesel do the same thing? Please enlighten me.

Add heated fuel lines.

That's not really an answer I'd expect for a blending forum.

Those heated fuel lines aren't going to do anything in the 1st 5 minutes that my truck is running and cold. That is the period I'm have heard concern about.

The idea of Blending is to make the oil " diesel Like" so it will combust properly without creating any problems. By varying the baseline mix according to the climate you ensure that your engine is happy right from the get go. Last summer I ran my wifes car on 10% ULP and 5%ULP/12.5% bio blends and it runs better now than when we got the thing and it had only ever been run on Dino.
I strongly recommend ULP in any blend as the vapor of the fuel is very effective in easy starting and clean combustion no matter what it is mixed with.

I think Blending is given a bad name by those who like to sell Bio or SVO related products and realise that this method is so simple and effective that their profit potential is severely limited.
Out of all the oil usage methods, blending is the simplest and has the least drawbacks of all while incorporating the most upsides.

When people warn you off blending, firstly ask if they have tried it and if they have, find out what they were doing. If they were making some fundamental mistake, their complaints would hardly be something to worry about. Likewise, there are plenty of people out there that will tell you Bio is an engine killer but those that have used it can see the idiocy of that argument.

Summer temps are the perfect time to blend and save your Bio so give it a try.

2jzpgt

I am interested in an informed answer too. While I am already blending under the tutulege of a friend of mine, the crankcase contanination concerns me too.

I am running a three tank system on my Dodge Cummins. Factory, Blend and WVO. I usually switch to the Blend for startup and shutdown. My Blend tank is a bit over 40 Gals. US. The ratio I am using is about 78% Diesel, 20% WMO and 2 % RUG. It seems to start and stop quite well, although this past winter on some really cold Florida mornings, it was a bit hard to start. That concerned me since I don't wish to buy another starter. So it went on heater or on straight Diesel in the cold snaps.

When making the additional fuel tank, i provided ample heating capacity for both fuels. To date though, I have never turned the heat on in the Blend tank. I hear about some people running up to 80% WMO with heat, but so far the 20% seems pretty safe so far. I've been running on Blend and WVO for over a year now without any engine problems. Oil changes are a bit more frequent now and the WMO seems no different than before the conversion.

The WMO filtration is a pain. but the pocketbook makes up for it...

I'll be following this thread with interest.

I don't know the PowerStroke engine but blow-by when cold is more of an issue with IDI motors. The problem is there with all fuels but bio/veg polymerize. The glycerine in vege oil is also liable to oxidation.

Soot in the lube oil is the biggest wear factor in a diesel and you get that with all fuels.
Quite a few Universities etc have done research on this and from memory veg oil raises maintenance costs a bit over the life of the engine but if the fuel is free it is still a lot cheaper.

Blow by is only a risk for unburnt fuel - so only if you do not have complete combusion. Moreover, if the cylinder wall is cold, there is the risk of fuel condensing at the wall an from there go to the lube oil. So you need to: 1) Secure good combustion. 2) Avoid cold fuel condensing.

1) To secure combustion you need viscosity low enough for the nozzles to make good atomization, and a fuel that ignites well. I have tried blends with SVO, ULSD and RUG. 2% RUG does not make big difference. 7,5% RUG runs significantly better than pure ULSD (stable at lower rpm), 10% RUG is no difference from 7,5% RUG. Regarding viscosity: Do not run higher viscosity than very cold ULSD. I have ran a HDi (Citroen) at 45 cSt, a single cold morning. But is not planning to run much higher viscosity than 25-30 cSt.

2) SVO (or WVO) is more likely to condense at cylinder wall than Bio og ULSD. Therefore I allways heat the engine block before start - thereby minimizing the risk.

I have done 25.000 km now on 33-47% SVO, few percent RUG, and ULSD (temperature: -10 to +10 C)

Heated fuel lines will do no difference to the combustion (or blow by) as the injected fuel will allways have the same temperature as the nozzle. Thus: Heat the block. Heated fuel lines only minimize viscosity with regard to the filter and fuel pump.

Best regards.

Kim Bindesboll (Denmark)

Hi everybody, I'm new here today and wondererd if anybody could help me get started?
I've been collecting WVO for a month. I've filtered it through 1 micron filters then mixed it 50-50 with diesel in a 2006 1.8 ford turbo diesel van. I changed the fuel filter at the start as I had read somewhere. It ran good for 3 weeks (a little trouble starting on cold mornings) but this week I had to drain the tank as it doesn't seem to mix well with the diesel and stopped working.
Is there something simple I can mix it with to thin it to a similar viscosity as diesel or is the pre heater a more simple route? Like I say I'm new so abbreviations such as "HOH, ULP, ULSD and RUG" will confuse my newbee brain cells! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Paul UK

P.s I would like to use it in a 2000 Audi V6 tdi eventually. Does anybody know if this car can run on WVO?

Thanks again.

Thanks J G.

I thought IDI engines were better as far as blow by was concerned? The fuel goes into a pre-chamber instead of directly in the cylinder thus eliminating that chance, is that right?
Rusty

Quote "That's not really an answer I'd expect for a blending forum."

What answer are you looking for?

Many of us spend hours which become years learning to do this. We strive to continiously improve while learning from one another.

I have been blending since about the time i joined this forum.My truck was about two years old and many here could not believe i was going to experiment with such a new and expensive truck.
I suspect ( at the time ) i had the newest vehicle being experimented with
and it is a DI which may also have been a first for this forum.
I believe my truck has the same components under the hood as your 02 and my signature has info shared with each post.

One of my two 12v heaters ( which quickly heats to approximately 300 degrees ) is just before the OEM filter.

**If blending is so bad, why is my truck still running? **

Please take more time with the "Find" function tab and do more searches.

I was hoping not to have to add heat to my stock system. But alas, If need be, I can.
What kind of line heaters do you use?

That and I read all these biodiesel and 2-tank WVO advocates screaming that blending is terrible on thedieselstop.com forum. I just get worried.
I mean, if you think abou it, even if you have heaters inline like DN does, you still have that first 1-2 minutes of thicker fuel going into the engine. The question is, does it 'cause as much problems as the naysays are saying it does? I certainly don't have the answer. I'm hoping that runinng 10%rug in my blend will ignite the mixture better.

That, and I just did an oil change and saved some oil. I am going to send a sample to Blackstone Labs before I start running a blend and see if I see a change in my oil when I change the oil in a few months after running a blend for a few months.

2jzpgt, I commend you and every other member here for going to the trouble of crankcase oil analysis . Smart move.

I built the 12v heaters based on info available on this forum ( you could use the find and search tab for the info like i did ).
Another member here PM'd me earlier this year about my 12v heaters. It is a long read with lots of how-to info.

john gait
Dumb it down for me. How do i get a post to refer to a previous post like you did here on 5/02/2009 at 01:20 PM. OR i can just copy/paste.

Let me give it some thought and give john gait ( or others here who already know how ) time to respond.
john ( or others ) you can PM me if you prefer.

During the winter of 2009 i ran 70 to 75 % vo mixed with K1,RUG, and Turpentine. My heaters are on and off with the ingition switch.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DN,

quote:

Originally posted by 2jzpgt:
That and I read all these biodiesel and 2-tank WVO advocates screaming that blending is terrible on thedieselstop.com forum. I just get worried.

I have never been involved in any Interest/ Hobby with as much Mis-information and wide spread Crap as I have seen in the veg fuels game. My own cars are rolling monuments to proving more of these Veg rules and theory's completely wrong than I can even remember now.

I agree with John completely about people Parroting on about something they read. I have found that to be the case endless times with all manner of veg related ideas and principals. People just copy what the last guy did before them with no real understanding of what they need to accomplish or what it takes to make it work. If more people grew some round ones down below and did some experimentation and testing for themselves, there would be a lot less BS on forums like this and the use of veg would be a lot more developed and refined.

As I said before, I believe a lot of the reason that blending is disparaged is because the people selling Bio making equipment and Svo conversion parts Can't make a buck out of blending. What can they sell a blender? Some filter bags?

You can add heat when blending. I have done so and found it worked well. It is of course more beneficial in cool winter temps than summer when the fuel will be considerably warmer anyway. By the same token My wifes car has been running since January with NO modifications at all and is running better now than when we got the thing! Like all veg systems, Blending does rely on some tolerance and over engineering of the vehicles fuel system design but if you run a blend suitable for your conditions, your starts will be perfectly good and the fuel will be at a point where you don't need any heat.

My cars run better when warmed up no matter what fuel is in them and adding heat to a blend is the same thing, It's helpful, but not a requirement.
The only heat I run on my Merc is a home made HE before the first fuel filter and that is for an SVO system as well. Of course the paranoid will tell you the oil has to be at a precise temperature or the engine will die an instant death and all that, but the HE in my car is no where near as powerful as what most people use but 50,000 KM and over 2.5 years later, it runs dam well for a 30 yo car.

If your the easily worried kind that is too scared to do some tests and find things out for yourself, instead preferring to believe all the bad things you read, Just forget about blending and use something that is "Perfect" and completely safe like a regular Diesel.

No use loosing sleep at night over something like motor fuel. Either give it a try to find out what's what so you have some first hand knowledge or forget about the idea all together and stick to store bought pump fuel.

This post is to see if i understand the directions.I may delete it shortly.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...s/a/frm/f/9751014871

If this works then jg, "yes" is your answer , thanks to you john galt.

Let me also check with my PM friend to be sure it is OK with him, i do not want to violate any rules. After all, a PM is a Private Message.

DN: Thankyou for taking the time to explain all this to me. I understand and agree completely with all you say.

I think I am going to give this blending thing a try.

So here's that I'm thinking for a blend:
50% VO
40% #2 D
9.5% RUG
.5% acetone & Turp

Or should I just use 5% RUG?

Do you think this mix would work ok in my 7.3L Powerstroke to start, with no heaters? It'll in used starting mid May. Nothing below 45* at night.

I am considering posting this as a thread of its own.

12v fuel heater

( I did a title edit in response to DCS )

I apologize in advance for possible confusion.

Supplies
You can get your supplies from Radio Shack(RS), Ace Hardware(AH), Tractor Supply Company(TSC), Auto Zone(AZ),and McMaster(M).
From RS i got a roll of 12 gauge insulated wire and a relay rated at 30amp.
From AH i got two 1/4" female npt and male 3/8" barbs, a pack of female wire ends, a pack of male wire ends, a pack of 3"wide and 1/2" thick fiberglass insulation.
From TSC i got a 30' package of 19 gauge stainless steel wire.
From AZ i got an inline fuse holder, a 15" straight rediator hose PN1315, a tube of heat resistant silicone, a 20" lenght of 3/8" metal brake line, two brass fittings -- female flare (with inverted male inside) to male npt threads ( They are in a metal container near the brake lines.)
From M i got a length of heat resistant sleeve pn 8819K41 , and a roll of silicone tape pn 7643A79.

**You can eliminate the TSC stop and get the stainless wire from AH, and the RS stop and get those from AZ but i like the RS relays better. Purchase from the stores of your choice.**

I already had hydraulic thread sealant. Use a thread sealant of your choice.

This will take several hours to complete, including the install, but is worth it.

Assembly

Make a sleeve 36" long with silicone at each end.
Coat the end with silicone, measure 36" and coat again (create a 2" wide band ). Allow this to dry at least 30 minutes. Cut at center of silicone.

Stainless wire in sleeve.
Fish the wire through the sleeve. Be sure to have an inch of wire exposed out each end of sleeve. Cut the wire.

Ends to stainless wire.
Tightly loop exposed wire and slide wire connector over wire, double crimp connector to wire. Do this to each end. ( Doing this to each connector creats 4 connection points for each end of the heater and greatly reduces the chances of connection failure.)

You now have a 12v heater.

The brake line.
Screw the (AZ) threaded brass fittings to the ends, these are flare so no need for sealant.
Add sealant to npt threads and screw (AH) barbed brass fittings to ends. Use wrenches and snug everything together. We will now call it a fuel line.

Preparing line for heater.
Mark a 15" area away from the ends. Cut two short lengths of silicone tape ( it adheres to itself more than to the metal at first ). Place the tape around the line creating a 2" wide band at each 15" mark keeping the mark at the center of each band.
This is safety insulation for the heater ends.


Heater to line.
Beginning at the center of a band, carefully coil/wrap the heater around the line.After several coils, use a piece of tape to hold the end of the heater in place.( Remember the 15" area? ).Continue coiling until you get 15" from end to end. Tape end in place.
Get the radiator hose and place it against the coiled heater to ensure the electrical ends go a little beyond the ends of the hose.Do not install the hose yet. Tape the entire heater from end to end . (Guess what, later that hose becomes the final heat shield).

Insulation for heater.
Coil/wrap the (AH) 3" fiberglass insulation with snug 2/3 overlaps. Secure with tape at ends. Take radiator hose( heat shield ) and carefully slide it over heater. Connectors must have access to connect power wires. Use tape to close ends of hose to line. This minimizes heat loss and gives a nice appearance.


The 12v power .
I used a (RS) 4 post relay and 12 gauge wire. Relay has posts 30, 85, 86, & 87.
Connect AZ 12 ga wire inline fuse holder(use 25 amp fuse)from 30 to a heavy 12v power source.
Connect 12 ga wire from 85 to a ground.
Connect 12 ga wire from 86 to a power source (turned on and off by the ignition) .
Connect 12 ga wire from 87 to one heater connector.
Connect 12 ga wire from the remaining heater connector to a ground.

This is a finished fuel line heater.

The heat shield gets warm but will not burn you.
Of course i changed the fuel line route while adding length to the fuel line.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DN,

quote:

Originally posted by DN:
This will take several hours to complete, including the install, but is worth it.

I don't think so.

The fact it is only drawing 4 amps means it is only putting a max of 48 watts of heat into the oil.
In calculations I have done and those that I have seen from others when electric heaters have been discussed before, this is not within a bulls roar of putting any worthwhile heat into even the smallest flow of fuel an engine could use. If you work out the BTU's required to raise an amount of flowing oil anywhere near a useful temp rise, you see the numbers make the concept nothing more than an exercise in futility.

Unless one believes that these electric heaters can alter the laws of physics, they just don't have any useful output for our needs.
I know a lot of people will argue this point but perhaps someone might like to do an actual bench test where they have a flow of oil running through one of these things and measure the in and out temps. If they showed any more than a 5 oC rise on a flow of oil that would be reasonable for a vehicles fuel consumption, I'd be more than happy to change my mind on them.

Until then, I'll stick with the laws of physics.