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0-60mph time, top speed, chassis dyno, etc.
Anything beyond the unreliable ButtDyno®. |
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A quote, happy? What is the point of doing a dyno sheet at all if people are going to just blow it off as "it might not apply to other cars, even the same make and model"? How about you go put yours on the dyno and show me this magical HP that does not exist with pure water. G@sser engine can get more power because it cools the air which means more fuel per CC of air and more power. Diesels do not care about A/F ratio so unless your engine is running poorly (rich) in the first place you will have no gain at all with pure water. You must add additional fuel through some kind of alcohol or more diesel to see any kind of power gain at all. The fact that I got exactly 0HP with pure water simply means that my engine is running cleanly and is well tuned with no unburned fuel left over to burn through the addition more dense air. |
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You would of course mean apart from this being logical and known fact? So what you are saying is that what applies to one Vehicle applies to them all? Given that, the logical extrapolation of your position is that because something doesn't work on your car, It won't work on any other..OR.. if something did work on your vehicle, It would give every other car the exact same performance boost?? If that is what you want to believe, I won't bother trying to convince you of anything else. If you want to get some more power out of your Merc, I'll sell you this carburettor I have. I put it on my old car and the thing picked up 25 HP. I have several Dyno sheets to prove it. Luckily you have now told me there is no difference between make or model, you could put it on your 240D and you would also get an extra 25 Hp. **** * 1978 Merc 300D. Running Blend and 2 tank system with Home Made HE and water injection. |
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How about you cut the cr@p and make a logical comparison.
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Are you sure? Wouldn't a denser air charge result in less fuel per CC of air? |
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Air fuel ratio. Gassers must keep it within a certain range to run well. Evaporating water takes energy out of the air making it cooler. Cooler air is more dense.
The more air you can fit into the cylinder the more fuel must be used to keep it in that A/F range, bingo, more power. I not as ignernt as som peple mak mi out ta bee. |
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Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to make you look ignorant.
I wasn't aware of any mechanism in a gasser engine that automatically ballances air to fuel, so that's why I though you had a reverse conception of what happens when cooling the air charge in a gas engine. Don't diesels also do this? |
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Gas engines see the denser air as a higher airflow rate through the MAF sensor or carburetor and adjust the fuel rate to match.
Mechanical diesels only care about accelerator position, RPM and boost pressure. They can't adjust for airflow or boost above a certain pressure on their own. Some electronic diesels that have an airflow sensor can adjust for additional airflow. However some only use it to monitor airflow to determine the needed EGR position and verify its proper operation. The Jeep liberty is a good example, it's MAF sensor is only part of controlling the EGR. |
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i couldn't bare to sit through all the *****ing at each other on this thread to find the information i'm about to ask so forgive me if it's already been covered..
if the purpose of WI for VO purposes is cleaning the deposits, and i have a naturally aspirated old ford 6.9, why not spray a H20/m-OH mixture into the air intake with a spray bottle? say, after driving so everything's already warm, with a little extra gas so you're not just at idling speed? 84 E-350 clubwagon 6.9 |
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Actually that is not the total purpose, thats only one. There is two purpose camps. In one camp is those looking for a tad bit of performance gain, such as passing a semi when in a sluggish MB 240D, and another camp are those like you mention who like the cleaning properties. Then there is most everyone else who are really somewhere in the middle. hmm.. guess that makes it three camps not two  Also misting at a higher work load on the engine some hypothosize would better utilize the automized stuff you just misted in there so it does its job better. From what I've read.. not tested myself, what you suggest with a squirt bottle on occasion at high idle should do what your thinking; cleaning it out some. _________________________ If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT; But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well. |
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You could probably do that and this is exactly what some mechanics do to clear out severe buildups in some engines. The thing is, are you really going to be inclined to do that with any regularity? I also wonder if it would be enough. In my own experience, I noticed a change in the way the vehicle went within a few days driving which surprised me but I was still noticing very slight but constant improvements for months after. Given that I am putting around 10% of the total oil volume I use in water through the engine each month, that's going to be a lot of spraying. You may well not need that much water to keep the engine clean but I am doubtful that a bit of a squirt now and then is really going to do anything effective. On my car, I have the water come on only at full throttle where some people think the best benefit is a virtually constant system. Either way would suggest a lot more water is needed to be effective than just a spray after the car has been driven. The other thing that was touched on would be the potential for some water to remain in the engine or manifolds that may do damage if left to sit. In practicality, I don't see someone being inclined to get out when they come home, open the bonnet, pull off the air cleaner cover, stand there for very long spraying water and giving the engine a rev and then putting everything back and the car away being something anyone would do very often. Setting up a WI system can be very easy and probably save you a lot of time just doing a system in the first place than the time you would spend squirting water in the engine manually. The greater frequency of a proper system would also be miles more effective and do your engine a lot more good. **** * 1978 Merc 300D. Running Blend and 2 tank system with Home Made HE and water injection. |
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as far as determining the benefit of running wi full time... once upon a time there was a drag strip in Orange County (coastal southern california) where race gas, alcohol and nitro- methane fueled vehicles frequently posted record runs the sucesses achieved there were generally attributed to humidity stemming from the coastal climate!
if a spark ignition engine can benefit from thermoexpansion imagine what a compression ignition engine will do for you! 80's NA VWs & NA and turbo Benzes, '91 E350 7.3 IDI NA various bicycles with trailers and gearing low enough to ride up a cliff ;-) |
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hello shane.
after reading this post, i am extremely interested in learning more and most likely installing a home-made water injection system on my rig. i am waiting the arrival of my vegistroke system to install on my 99' F250. i have spent countless hours reading and educating myself on WVO fuel systems and the water injection system is something that i have just recently discovered and wanting to learn more about. therefore, i will continue to read more, but in the mean time, i would love to hear your advise and instructions on how to install a WJ system on my 99' PSD. I thank you so very much for your knowledge and time. I also noticed that you live in VA. I currently live in Allentown, PA, but have family in Lynchburg VA and find myself driving down to VA once a month. Thanks again. You can reach me either on this site or jsbasham77@gmail.com Jonathan Basham
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how much water will it take to clean
valve deposits, rings, piston tops? that is up for conjecture! on this forum and others ppl have mentioned italian tuneups. a period of time of hard driving that supposedly scubs the encrusted layer of carbon off the tops of the pistons. a milimeter or 2 worth of carbon buildup, that is quite a tall order - if you ask me. also what exactly is hard, and long? is this the stuff that www.snopes.com is made of? I have rebuilt numerous engines; air, watercooled, gas as well as diesel and i have never seen one without significant carbon buildup!! can anyone offer any concrete data? p.s. carbonated water is used in restaurants to aid removal of carbon deposits from grills and the like 80's NA VWs & NA and turbo Benzes, '91 E350 7.3 IDI NA various bicycles with trailers and gearing low enough to ride up a cliff ;-) |
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also please keep im mind water heated beyond 75deg f continues to expand!
there are likely other phenomena that relate to its use in a wi system. http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html 80's NA VWs & NA and turbo Benzes, '91 E350 7.3 IDI NA various bicycles with trailers and gearing low enough to ride up a cliff ;-) |
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For what it's worth I think DCS is on the right track....
A while back I removed the head to inspect an engine (300 D turbo) that had been running VO with a water injection system... The engine was just like new inside... Injectors, valves, everything was clean and beautiful.... I would highly recommend installing a water injection on any veg powered car... |
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Welcome! Tell us more ! you a mechanic?
99 E350 psd |
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On the performance side, water expands about 1600 times as it is converted to a vapor state. So it seems that water injection would/might give somewhat of a performance increase. Just my $.02
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Water alone provides zero power increase. There is no "steam engine" effect.
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