First photo

1Sample_B_on_right.jpg (39 Kb, 392 downloads)

Second photo

2Three_samples_and_ref.JPG (325 Kb, 314 downloads)

Third photo

3SampleA_and_Ref.jpg (203 Kb, 189 downloads)

Fourth photo

4Sample_A_fail.jpg (77 Kb, 207 downloads)

Fifth photo

5ASTM_and_Ref.jpg (366 Kb, 199 downloads)

Hello Producer

Excellent information, thank you for sharing this information with us.

Damn producer.. you did allot of work to come up with all that.. Thanks!!!

The only problem is that your photos suck.. We need a "How to photography" forum here!!! LOL..

Thanks for doing all that.. I learn from guys like you!!

Outstanding, thank you. The results you obtained on sample B are with the pHLip test typical for unwashed biodiesel.

Those are really good pictures considering how hard it is to photgraph these things and still relay the results of the test.

What was the source of your methanol for the Warnqvist test and it's purity if you know it?

Do you think you can also perform this test again on sample B after it's been washed?

For the purposes of comparison for this thread, could we (americans anyway) maybe all start doing this test using Heet brand methanol (auto parts store dry-gas) just to make sure everyone's using the same chemical and to take storage/water absorption/whatever factors out of the methanol side of the picture more or less?

Mark

Neutral's Reply

I e-mailed Neutral asking him to look at this test and give his opinion as to it's validity.

This is his reply.

"Regarding the conversion test with methanol, it looks promising. Biodiesel needs about 4 parts of methanol to dissolve, so with 9 parts, as in the test, it should all dissolve readily. Just how much total glycerol you would need to fail the test I cannot work out and would need to try it.

Ideally the test would need to be calibrated. You would take a sample of clean dry biodiesel that just scraped into ASTM by GC. Then find out by trial and error what ratio of methanol was needed to get a clear solution. Then you would have a pass/fail test.

Of course there is no reason why fuel needs to be ASTM. Perhaps a range of pass/fail levels would be needed to get a good handle on it.

One nice thing about the test is that it would work perfectly well on unwashed biodiesel, as 2 or 3 % methanol would have little effect. If you wanted to be precise you could adjust the amount added to allow for it but I don't think anyone would measure their samples accurately enough to notice the difference.

One thing you would have to be very careful about is the water content of the methanol. Any absorption of water from the atmosphere would reduce the solubility of oily things. A bottle of methanol kept for this purpose, opened frequently, would eventually go off."

Producer, great pics and work, thanks for sharing.

Tilly, my test resulted in the oilclearing within 3-5 sec, but it had little oil droplets after a few minutes.

Does this mean the conversion is complete?

Thank you, and again GREAT test!!!

Hello AFH

I am afraid I can not say. My guess would be no, but it would be close.

RickDaTech

We keep a 55 gallon drum of methanol on hand for other purposes. The specific gravity of the methanol is 0.794 gm/cc. It was retested on Saturday, July 8, 2006 with a lab instrument whose only function is to automatically measure SG. The instrument is temperature compensated and is recalibrated every 6 months.

AFH

Remember, these tests are indicators. My Sample A (above post) cleared in a few seconds. Small oil droplets, that initially formed as a "pin flock" in the methanol, formed within 3 or 4 minutes. Based on a strict interpretation of my understanding of Warnqvist's information my sample and your sample may not be full ASTM conversion biodiesel. But, both exhibit a very high conversion percentage.

Hi Tilly and Producer,

You guys are both right that the conversion was not complete. I got a friend to test for % of conversion here, and its 95%.

However, I've managed to see how quick the methanol clears up with high conversion BD. Only one word can describe this...MAGICAL!!!

I've been processing Crude palm oil, Refinied Bleeched Deoderized (RBD) Palm oil and Olien, for awhile now, to BD. And with this test, I can see that my CPO conversion is not fully converting.

Do you guys know how would I get higher cetane level? I am getting 50.8 now only.

Well back to testing more samples

Thanks to you both and all in the forum.

AFH.

Just ran a few comparative tests...

90ml HEET / 10ml bio to be tested.

Hard to quantify the results, but in order of apparant conversion..from best to worst:

1. Dry KOH flake
2. Liquid KOH
3. Dry KOH w/simulated 5% prewash after 15min agit.
4. Liq. KOH w/simulated 5% prewash after 15min agit.

I am wondering if:
a. The prewash stopped the conversion to soon
b. The remaining water from prewash affects the test.

Any thoughts?

Hello AFH

How did your friend test for conversion, GC?

well where do i start
i run a 1 ltr test batch using KOH
did shake left to settle then tested 27/3 it was crystal clear,
i then washed and dryed still crystal clear then did same test again 27/3 its hazey but no oil or bio in bottom of jar

is it good or bad

plugly

In order to more accurately compare results from this test, it would be useful to be able to measure the dropout.

It seems what would be great for this is a graduated cylinder that tapers, like a funnel to a point at the base. Is there such a thing?
I have ben looking at lab glassware shops online and cant seem to find anything like that.


ooops...nevermind...I found the Imhoff Cone
http://www.daigger.com/catalog/product;jsessionid=0001H...Testing&prodId=30380

vegenergy

A standard test in almost all waste water treatment plants is "settleable solids".

This test uses a one liter tapered (or conical) bottom glass flask. The flask is open at the top and the bottom is closed. Each flask comes with calibrated milliliter marks starting at the very bottom with zero.

This flask would be absolutely ideal, because it is specifically designed for this purpose.

I haven't done it, but a google search on "waste water treatment" and " settleable solids test" should quickly locate the item.

As promised, I did measure the drop-out from my GC tested 78% Ester sample. To be accurate, it would have needed to be .6mL, which is around 20% of the volume 3mL, added which was 'not esters' in that sample.

I did in fact measure nearly .75mL, but during separation some meth did get 'sucked up' with the fall-out. I have left it to settle in the measuring syringe overnight.....

We see tomorrow....