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Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test- Outstanding! (3/27)

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December 14, 2008, 01:37 PM
timnmatty
Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test- Outstanding! (3/27)
Using a freedom fueler processor with an in tank heater. Have produced about six excellent 40 gallon batches so far. Last batch passed miscibility test. Washed it dried it and filtered it through an ion exchange resin filter for three hours. Passes 3/27 test with minimal clouding at first but cleared up in a minute or two with nothing dropping out. Performed a phlip test. Red color remained ok, biodiesel was slighlty hazy, and I mean really slightly. What's anyones take on that? Do I have good fuel to put in my truck or not? Any help is appreciated.
December 19, 2008, 08:17 AM
Chug
It has been mentioned that cloudiness in 3/27 that otherwise passes may be caused by catalyst but others disagree.
Has anyone been able to determine whether excess catalyst affects the results?

Has anyone done any of these tests

just adding 3ml wvo to 27ml methanol?

adding glycerol to methanol?

adding water to methanol?

adding water to a passed 3/27 test?

adding settled/filtered soap to methanol?

adding settled/filtered soap a passed 3/27 test

trying with bio made from different melting point feedstocks?


*************************
1991 Transit Tipper
1991 Mercedes 709D

*************************
http://www.wastevegoildacorum.co.uk

The Biodiesel wiki
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki

December 19, 2008, 10:43 AM
Chug
in answer to my own question I have now tested

just adding 3ml wvo to 27ml methanol =
all 3ml dropped out within minutes

adding glycerol to methanol =
nothing dropped out after 30 mins but brown cloud to sample

adding water to methanol =
nothing, just stays clear

adding settled/filtered soap to methanol =
most dropped out after a few mins and left cloudy sample.

I'll do some more tests as and when and report


*************************
1991 Transit Tipper
1991 Mercedes 709D

*************************
http://www.wastevegoildacorum.co.uk

The Biodiesel wiki
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki

December 19, 2008, 03:42 PM
Andrew M
Chug,

Nice going with the tests and the list.

I have (rarely) seen cloudiness and flaky fallout from VERY high soap content.

But, over and over again, when I test samples taken at various points in the process, it goes like this: (less converted to more)


It is also interesting to see how temp affects the test. I have seen fuel which has a small amount of fallout at 68f pass cleanly at 72f. I have also seen fuel which passes fine at 68f, clearly fail at 64f.

I can also verify what you saw with glycerine not causing fallout. I have added one ml of glycerine along with the 3 mls of passing fuel. This did not cause fallout.

It might be interesting to add to your list the idea of adding some water, soap etc to a test. What I mean is 3 mls of known fuel, 27 mls methanol, and 1ml (or whatever seems right) of water, soap, etc.

Also, times I have done the test with low quality methanol, it causes significant fallout.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
December 19, 2008, 03:57 PM
Chug
good suggestions Andrew, I thought of adding them to a passed sample but not before the actual test.

I also posted some more notes on the cbt forum to help with the 3/27 article, a lot of which is mentioned somewhere or other in this thread, and GL processor Graham just agreed to join and help us write new/update articles too.


*************************
1991 Transit Tipper
1991 Mercedes 709D

*************************
http://www.wastevegoildacorum.co.uk

The Biodiesel wiki
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki

February 16, 2009, 07:19 PM
timnmatty
If your bio passes the 3/27 test, is it necesary to do a phlip test? Isn't conversion the most important factor? I make 40 gallon batches and they last no more than two weeks so I'm not worried about age of the fuel. If I don't need the added expense of a phlip test for each batch I figure why waste it. After all, who wants to cut into beer funds when you don't have to!
February 16, 2009, 08:42 PM
Andrew M
quote:
If your bio passes the 3/27 test, is it necesary to do a phlip test? Isn't conversion the most important factor?


IMO, if you are passing 3/27 cleanly, with no cloudiness at 68f or lower, and you wash well, then save your $ on the pHlip. It is a good test for acid or alkaline fuel. This can be tested with titration too. It is also a test which will pick up Monoglycerided and Diglyceride better than 3/27. But, if you are passing 3/27 well, IMO, you are doing fine.

HTH.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
February 28, 2009, 09:32 PM
tokashila
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced precipitated bound-glycerides sticking to the side of the graduated cylinder instead of collecting at the bottom. I feel this is giving me some erroneous results from doing the 3/27. It seems when I swirl the graduated cylinder the beads collect over time at the bottom, indicating unconverted fuel. Any comments/suggestions would be great! Thanks.

~Ryan J.


Chemical & Energy Engineering -- The Pennsylvania State University
March 02, 2009, 12:01 PM
kumar
Ryan,

Tap the cylinder. They release pretty easily.


Kumar Plocher
Yokayo Biofuels
Yokayo Biofuels Facebook page
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fueling / R \ evolution since 2001
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Sustainable Biodiesel...
March 10, 2009, 07:34 PM
Neurot
How long do most people wait before declaring a test as passed?

We had a pass after a few minutes, but fallout after 30-45 minutes. We use our own room temperature which is usually 75-80 degrees.


Jason Burroughs
DieselGreen Fuels
www.dieselgreenfuels.com
512-873-4882
March 10, 2009, 10:47 PM
Andrew M
68f, 30 min., sealed jar.

Above 68f will appear to pass poor fuel.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
May 11, 2009, 11:59 AM
greastart
Andrew,

I notice a waxy looking substance FLOATING on the surface. It forms almost instantly. No visible dropout. Any idea what the waxy looking substance is? Should I be concerned?

Don't have a thermometer to measure temp, but house thermometer indicates about 62*f.

Thanks
May 11, 2009, 12:43 PM
Andrew M
quote:
I notice a waxy looking substance FLOATING on the surface. It forms almost instantly. No visible dropout. Any idea what the waxy looking substance is? Should I be concerned?


I have not seen this. If I find something happening with fuel for my vehicles that I have not seen and have explanation for, I am concerned.

How well washed is the fuel?

Was the oil or fuel contaminated with motor oil or other petro? Something else?

Hope you figure it out.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
May 11, 2009, 01:18 PM
greastart
Andrew,

It's not washed or dried yet. 1 litre mini. The waxy looking substance looks "flakey." It is about the area of a pencil eraser. Not round...but would make up about that much area. Did the 3/27 and noticed almost instantly.

Room temp is still about 62*f. Appearance of "flake" that is floating on top of 3/27 is now taking on the color of BD. It started out whitish and waxy. There is still no visible fallout in test. Test sample is very clear.

Did a second test, (different jar) same temps and got to 7/27 before I noticed any fallout. I understand you think this may not bear any consideration...but wanted to see for my self. Interestingly the 7/27 test does not show any "waxy flakes."

Thank you
May 12, 2009, 01:06 AM
Andrew M
Wash a sample and see if the flakes are still there.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew