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Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test- Outstanding! (3/27)
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quote:
I would first just increase the NaOH/KOH and see what happens because it is cheaper than increasing methanol.


I agree. Consider increasing run times as well. I have seen improvement continue at least 4 hrs.

Doing 3/27 as an in process test is very helpful, since you then know when it is OK to shut off the processor.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for all the replies.

Just now, I have mixed the biodiesel with methoxide (1g NaOH + 50ml methanol). It looks pretty cloudy and I observed there is some bubble (similar like bubble produced from soap) present at surface of the mixture. Does it seem to be ok?

I am curious about doing the 3/27 conversion for the 2nd time. After I mixed and let it settle, can I just take biodiesel sample? Or Do I have to wash and dry the biodiesel 1st before taking the sample from and use it for 3/27 conversion test? Since it is pretty cloudy as I have mentioned above.

I will try to upload the pictures as soon as I am back home.


Thanks,
Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello Nicholas

Just take the sample, there is no need to wash






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think there is something wrong with the re-processing process.
Need advice here.... Smile

This is the biodiesel that fails 3/27 conversion test before mixed with methoxide


After mixture of 1g NaOH + 50ml methanol was poured in biodiesel,
The stirring was done manually by hand for 15min


This is the result of the mixture after 3 hours. There are 2 different layer, with cloudy layer at the bottom, and there is bubble at the surface


Is there anything wrong?? Really need help from all.... Frown


Thanks,
Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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5 grams of NaOH in a one liter re-process is WAY to much. It should be more like 1 gram.

HTH.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
5 grams of NaOH in a one liter re-process is WAY to much. It should be more like 1 gram.

HTH.


Sorry Andrew Morris, my mistake. The mass of NaOH was 1 gram not 5 gram. There was typing error. I will correct it. Really thanks for your correction.

Thanks,
Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hello all...

I just want to share the comparison result that I obtained from 3/27 conversion test, and have question referring to the result.

This is the un-reprocessed biodiesel that failed Jan Warnqvist's Conversion Test. There wa droplet of oil settle down.


And after mixing with methoxide (5g NaOH + 50ml methanol) as Tilly adviced, this is the result. It looked clearer compared with the un-reprocessed biodiesel and there was not any oily droplets settle out.


I am just wondering about the re-processed biodiesel, since it looks really cloudy. As shown in picture below.


What can I do to make the cloudy biodiesel clear?? Can I do washing process??


Thanks,
Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What can I do to make the cloudy biodiesel clear?? Can I do washing process??


Just wait. It'll clear up in a day or 2. Or you can wash it (it'll make it even cloudier), and then dry it (I have mine drying in the sun as we speak), and then it'll be clear.


************************

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Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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After I left it for more than 3 days, it still looks pretty cloudy. So that, this afternoon I decided to bubble washing it. But it becomes really mess up.

This is the result of 1st bubble washing process.


Is this emulsion?? Or is it something else??


Thanks,
Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ok, I am going crazy here, I hit a motherload of oil the other day, brought it home and titrated at 4. I then processed as usual with a base of 7.5 for 90% KOH. Big fail on 3/27 test, then reprocessed at 1 gram per liter and 35 ml per liter methanol, still same fail. I have tried longer run times, still fails. Always have it at 130 degrees F, in short no matter what I do I cannot get this oil to produce bio that will pass 3/27, it looks good and even runs good in the duramax but wont pass 3/27. Any suggestions?


If it aint broke, dont fix it! But its ok to take it apart and see how it operates.
 
Registered: August 08, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello biodiesel4me

I would start doing some 1 litre minibatches varying the amount of chemicals and see what it takes to make it pass the test






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am more than happy to help, but you will need to give me more to work with.

Process Questions:

Processor type?
Oil type?
% methanol?
Methanol purity?
Batch size?
Mixing method?
Mixing time?
Water % in oil?
Start temp.?
End temp.?
Sealed or vented?
Time to introduce methoxide?

3/27 Test Questions:

Methanol used in test?
Sealed jar?
Temp. of each part of test?
How long do you wait to read the test?
Is the fallout oily, or sticky looking?
Washed and dried fuel, or unwashed?
If unwashed, prewash used or no?

Anyone else have questions to add that would help limit the issue?


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Originally posted by ano1987:
After I left it for more than 3 days, it still looks pretty cloudy. So that, this afternoon I decided to bubble washing it. But it becomes really mess up.

This is the result of 1st bubble washing process.


Is this emulsion?? Or is it something else??


Thanks,
Nicholas


Bump...

I know this is a late reply, but since this site has been a great resource and reference, I thought I'd help out by answering this question for those who are reading up.

This looks like an emulsion to me. I have some experience with emulsions and experimented with a number of different methods to break it, since I knew it would eventually happen again.

Here is my method of dealing with emulsions and the slime that comes out of the wash.

1. I tried heat, high heat with vacuum, mixing with glycerin, table salt, vinegar, and several other methods. Minimal, if any, results.

2. The ONE method I use with a high degree of success is not new (I read about it), but definitely bears repeating. A 5 gallon bucket with about 2 inches of rock salt and dissolve in very hot water to fill the bucket. Mix thoroughly, all but a small amount with dissolve in about 5 mins.

Pour in your washing/settling barrel and wait. I then use a small (1 gallon) bucket to dip out biodiesel off top and pour in a separate barrel. This takes a day or two total. This was for a "vanilla milkshake" emulsion, after other methods failed.

3. This was for a 30 gallon WVO batch, net was about 21 gallon. It was about 25-27 gallon (est) before washing, emulsion, recovery, etc.


4. When washing, etc and draining off the bottom of my tank, the first bits of thicker stuff that comes out into my small bucket (so I can watch it), I put into an open barrel that sits in the sun. Anything certainly water, I throw away, everything else I put in that barrel and let it sit.

That way, I continue processing the batch, but recover more biodiesel over time. My last batch, I got between 21 and 22 gallon from the batch after washing and drying, and was able to recover from this separate barrel over 5 gallon of biodiesel, which I added the the new batch during the washing process.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm happy to share my results (success or fail). Hope this helps somebody else...

-JC
 
Location: Western PA | Registered: August 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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hey my name is chidi am a teenager i made my own biodioesel but i dont may be there is something wen the astm results came out they said that the diesel index is low and also the there is high residue ,can you help me
i used 250ml of methanol
4grms of noah
1litre of fresh gnutoil.
 
Registered: September 16, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i made biodiesel,
so wen i submitted it
they results shows that the diesel index is low and also the there is high residue
i used 25oml of methanol
4grms of sodium hydroxide and also
1litre of groundnut oil can you help me
 
Registered: September 16, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey all...

I am just wondering about utilizing the 3/27 conversion test to identify whether the reaction is finished or still under reacted. Based on this use, I am curious about the timing of doing the test. Should I do the 3/27 test when the mixing process is still taking place (I am using pump to circulate in the mixing process)? Or should I do the test after switching off the pump and let it settle 1st to let the glycerol to settle out?

Because I am worry when doing the 3/27 test while the mixing process is still running, the glycerol will settle down during the test and causes a wrong test result. BY means, let say the biodiesel is suppose to pass the conversion test, but because of the presence of glycerol, it becomes fail the conversion test.



Thanks,

Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nicholas

If it is safe to do so, take a sample while the pump is running then let the sample sit for 15 mins - it should settle out, but you leave the rest processing. Now test the top lighter bit (see attachment), if it passes then proceed to settle. If it doesn't then process for another half an hour then take the test again using the same method.

LW

ImageDSC00018.JPG (43 Kb, 37 downloads)
 
Location: Midlands, UK | Registered: August 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Livewire,

thanks for the quick reply and your advice as well. Smile

Oh yeah, I still have a question about the settling time. Is there any relation between the volume of mixture with settling time?? Usually how many hours needed to let the glycerol fully settle out?

I am processing 50 liter WVO + 12.5L methoxide. How many hours should I let it settles after it passes the conversion test?



Thanks,

Nicholas
 
Registered: February 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hi ano1987

Have you got a sight tube on your processor? I don't open mine until I switch off the pump to settle the Glycerin from the bio, I can then see exactly the ssettling process. Although I am no expert I would imagine that the settling time depends on the quantity that you process as well as the type of oil you use (maybe someone more experienced can say?).

I do 70 litre batches and it looks like the glycerin settles out in about 20 mins but I let it sit for about 2hrs just in case there is anything finer in solution. As you can see from the above picture the bio is cloudy on top of the glycerin because of the soap and glycerin still in solution, which is why we remove excess methanol at the end of processing to make these drop out.

All the best.

LW
 
Location: Midlands, UK | Registered: August 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am sure my question has been asked before but I read alot of the thread didnt find what needed.

I have done a few batches. When it came to the 3/27 test one was clear right after shaking. Others have been cloudy but clear up after 5-10 mins. Nothing ever drops out. Is this good biodiesel and if it is why the difference between them? This is washed and dryed biodiesel. thank you
 
Location: atlanta | Registered: July 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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