Steve,

So that makes you think the quality changes from batch to batch?

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by steved:
this:
http://www.baddley.com/S/CB930.htm

look at the prices. when the % goes up the price goes way up.

why in the world would HEET use high priced methanol ?

Steve,

You have some solid information there. This thread is filled with people posting problems they are having with this test. Some have been addressed with solid experimentation, most have not. I did a little bit of experimentation with this test a while back and found it usefull for me, but I have not tried to address each issue.

Maybe we should take up a collection and commission an acedimic study on it? People making broad statments based in opinion are not solving the issues that keep croping up.

Steve,

You may be right, there could be variation. However, none of that shows that there is variation in Heet. Some companies have QC which maintains product uniformity. Heet may have that.

Rick,

let's stick the same brand of hydrometer in a few batchs in different cities and see what they say. I think it is uniform, but it is true, we'll never know for sure until we test, or get some spec from Heet.

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
Rick,

let's stick the same brand of hydrometer in a few batchs in different cities and see what they say. I think it is uniform, but it is true, we'll never know for sure until we test, or get some spec from Heet.

Andrew

Good idea. It's not the brand of hydrometer that counts. It is it's accuracy and range and the care taken by the operator. Ideally, the hydrometer should measure from about 160 proof to 200 proof and be certified accruacte. The reading should then be adjusted for temperature. There are a number of brands that make alcohol hydrometers certified for tax use. They are expensive and hard to find, but ideal for your test.

It may be easier to write the manufacture and ask them about their quality standards.

People who wrote to HEET several years ago were told that it's 99.9% pure, or something similarly specific (maybe 99.8?)

My methanol drums said 100% methanol.

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
My methanol drums said 100% methanol.

How much did that drum of 100% methanol cost you? Bet you got it for a steal. Pure anhydrous methanol is usually expensive. I refer to steve's post about the higher the percentage of methanol the more expensive it is.

Hello steved and rick

No secret ingredients, and unless they were selling 200 litres of 100% reagent grade alcohol for $195 (Highly unlikely) it was just 100% Technical Grade methanol (The same as will be used in HEET) which as we know can contain over 4% water according to the website you linked to.

Tilly,

Aren't you making an asumption? The MSDS said >99% not >96%. Can you point to the place whre it says HEET is made from technical grade methanol? I would be most interested in seeing that.

Hello Rick

Yes, I am making an Assumption.
I do not think they were selling me 200 litres of 100% reagent grade Methanol for $195 when according to steveds website link it should have cost $793.80 US ($1,001 Aus)
I also do not think they are selling <99% Reagent Grade Alcohol in HEET bottles.

It will be interesting to see what your Hydrometer readings show

Tilly,

Lets look at some basic math. The RETAIL price for reagent grade methanol by the drum is $793.80. We can use the retail price because it already has the margin built in. That sets 350mL of reagent grade methanol at $1.39 for 350mL. Add 50 cents for bottling and it becomes $1.89 per bottle. That's probably about the wholesale price for HEET. Using those numbers it would be a good money maker for the manufacture even using reagent grade methanol.

quote:

Originally posted by steved:
here is another one:

http://www.imperialinc.com/msds0055060.shtml

HEET is not pure methanol. there is other stuff in it.

Agreed, but does the other stuff interfere with either making biodiesel or the 27/3 test?

Hello Rick

quote:

Originally posted by RickDaTech:
Agreed, but does the other stuff interfere with either making biodiesel or the 27/3 test?

You seemed to think racing alcohol had additives that affected the test.

I assume you mean reagent grade >98.8%? I would rather not have the secret ingredients in the methanol either, but reagent grade methanol by the liter is rather expensive, and if they have no effect on the test then they may not be an issue. The first MSDS you pulled up has their concentration at <0.2%.

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
Hello Rick

quote:

Originally posted by RickDaTech:
Agreed, but does the other stuff interfere with either making biodiesel or the 27/3 test?

You seemed to think racing alcohol had additives that affected the test.

I apreciate the cheap fuel perspecive on using technical grade methanol for the test. From my testing lower quality methanol needed higher quality biodiesel to pass. I would think you'd want the highest quality methanol so as to lower the quality of biodiesel that would pass the test.

It's really hard to prove something is not a problem, but relatively easy to prove something is a problem. In my opinion there have been enough posts to prove racing fuel additives cause a problem with the 27/3 test. So far no one has compaired reagent grade methanol to HEET and found HEET lacking. (At least that I remember). BTW the additives in racing fuel are typically >2% of secret ingredients. That's an order of magnitude greater than what's in HEET.

quote:

Originally posted by steved:
the second one says 1%. Which one do you believe ?

It would be about 59 cents per test.

Not sure wich one I beleive, neither were put out by the manufacture. Although If I were a betting man I'd pick the first becasue it seems to have more details.

59 cents if you purchase locally. 1.00+ if you have it shipped to you. Heet breaks down at 20 cents per test. Technical grade at 4 cents per test.

Well, if you believe VP Racing Fuel

Their M1 Methanol fuel is either 99.95% or 99.85% purity, depending on which page of their website you read.

According to Race Cars For Kids
"The racing fuels grade of methanol is refined at a plant in Texas and all three west coast racing fuel distributors, VP Racing Fuels, Sunoco Racing Fuel and ERC (energy research corporation) buy the methanol and package it there. The methanol is identical, all three use new drums...None of the three distributors use an additive of any kind.
Currently Race Cars For Kids warehouses Sunoco Racing Fuels and offers it at the following pricing structure.
55 Gallon Drum $169.00(3.07 Gallon)
$3.69 Gallon in Small Quantities"

So that should solve everyone's concerns. 99.85% purity and no additives.

quote:

Originally posted by steved:
I guess if people are going to post 3/27 results then they could say what kind of methanol they used.

I think I"ve been saying that for a while. How about also posting what temperature you do this test at when you get a pass or a fail?

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
Well, if you believe VP Racing Fuel

Their M1 Methanol fuel is either 99.95% or 99.85% purity, depending on which page of their website you read.

According to Race Cars For Kids
"The racing fuels grade of methanol is refined at a plant in Texas and all three west coast racing fuel distributors, VP Racing Fuels, Sunoco Racing Fuel and ERC (energy research corporation) buy the methanol and package it there. The methanol is identical, all three use new drums...None of the three distributors use an additive of any kind.
Currently Race Cars For Kids warehouses Sunoco Racing Fuels and offers it at the following pricing structure.
55 Gallon Drum $169.00(3.07 Gallon)
$3.69 Gallon in Small Quantities"

So that should solve everyone's concerns. 99.85% purity and no additives.

All Hail Tilly, The Master of Cheap Fuel! The problems have come from people using racing fuel with additives. You've pointed out that racing fuel does not necessarily have to have additives in it. Good work.

Hello Rick

quote:

Rick said
The problems have come from people using racing fuel with additives. You've pointed out that racing fuel does not necessarily have to have additives in it.
Good work.

Of course you do not need to buy Racing Fuels with additives. That is common knowledge.
And do you notice that it is at least as high purity as HEET methanol, just like I said it would probably be.

(You forgot "The Best There Is")