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http://www.facebook.com/photo....e=1&relevant_count=1

Hope this link opens. Shot of wash water, wet BD, BD dried by hotplate. Don't know if all soaps out but city water pH is instantaneous pink with first drop titrant. Wash water is pink on first drop of indicator. No titrant needed. Good?

Soaps are a bigger problem in filter, it seems. I gauge my IP inlet on each vehicle.

Soaps not as big a deal on stout IP like my 83 300SD? How about 1998 Dodge 2500 w/in-line IP?
Have centrifuged my batch, saving some for "pro" in Raleigh to look at this month.

Fabricator: Centrifuged hot so I could dry. Finished at 128F. Cool and redo? 4 passes?


Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

83 MB 300SD (2 tank) - Greasel
98 Dodge 2500 (2 tank) - Golden Fuels
82 Rabbit Truck (2 tank) - my design) - SOLD
Diesel Craft CF process in enclosed shed
BD first batch 9/23/12, still going ..
6-4x10 solar hot water panels and 500 gallon wood-burning water stove
2.8 kW PV grid-tie w/batt b/u commissioned March 2011
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: September 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shot opened ... 35 gals look like that on right.


Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

83 MB 300SD (2 tank) - Greasel
98 Dodge 2500 (2 tank) - Golden Fuels
82 Rabbit Truck (2 tank) - my design) - SOLD
Diesel Craft CF process in enclosed shed
BD first batch 9/23/12, still going ..
6-4x10 solar hot water panels and 500 gallon wood-burning water stove
2.8 kW PV grid-tie w/batt b/u commissioned March 2011
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: September 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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pH of city water was "instant pink" with first drop of titrant.
Wash water was "instant pink" with first drop of indicator.
I was told they should be the same. Was the wash water "more neutral" than the city water? Seems impossible.

Are my soaps gone?


Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

83 MB 300SD (2 tank) - Greasel
98 Dodge 2500 (2 tank) - Golden Fuels
82 Rabbit Truck (2 tank) - my design) - SOLD
Diesel Craft CF process in enclosed shed
BD first batch 9/23/12, still going ..
6-4x10 solar hot water panels and 500 gallon wood-burning water stove
2.8 kW PV grid-tie w/batt b/u commissioned March 2011
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: September 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't think the indicator is the way to go because the ph# can change quite dramatically with shades of pink. Until you aquire a ph meter just do a simple soap test. all your fears about soap numbers will then be put to rest!

my well water has a ph of 7.8, If I contiually wash over and over again the wash water will have a lower ph than the starting water. I believe you can actually wash too much and cause the biodiesel to become acidic I'm not sure why but that has been my experiance and the reason I stop washing when the ph# is the same at the end of the wash cycle reguarless of the colur of the water.

your picture above shows a distinct emulsion layer between the wash water and the biodiesel, so for that batch the wash is not complete if you want to get the best yield possable. OR you can drain the water along with that layer and add the emulsion layer to the next batch for more washing. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
my well water has a ph of 7.8, If I contiually wash over and over again the wash water will have a lower ph than the starting water. I believe you can actually wash too much and cause the biodiesel to become acidic

Can you explain the chemistry behind that observation? Not challenging the validity of the observation, just wondering how that could happen.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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no John I can't explain why this happens, chemistry is not my strong suit but hopefully someone can comment.


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
I believe you can actually wash too much and cause the biodiesel to become acidic I'm not sure why but that has been my experiance and the reason I stop washing when the ph# is the same at the end of the wash cycle reguarless of the colur of the water.


Did not know this. Nice to know. Several posts, handling them individually. Will be seeing that fellow in Raleigh over the Christmas break, by the way.


Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

83 MB 300SD (2 tank) - Greasel
98 Dodge 2500 (2 tank) - Golden Fuels
82 Rabbit Truck (2 tank) - my design) - SOLD
Diesel Craft CF process in enclosed shed
BD first batch 9/23/12, still going ..
6-4x10 solar hot water panels and 500 gallon wood-burning water stove
2.8 kW PV grid-tie w/batt b/u commissioned March 2011
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: September 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Any comments about the pic? The finished clarity vs. the wash water and wet BD? That one sample, btw, has been sitting for weeks in a cool garage. 3/27's well. Will do the soap tests. Just wondering. Any thoughts?


Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

83 MB 300SD (2 tank) - Greasel
98 Dodge 2500 (2 tank) - Golden Fuels
82 Rabbit Truck (2 tank) - my design) - SOLD
Diesel Craft CF process in enclosed shed
BD first batch 9/23/12, still going ..
6-4x10 solar hot water panels and 500 gallon wood-burning water stove
2.8 kW PV grid-tie w/batt b/u commissioned March 2011
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: September 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SWMSGoodman:
Any comments about the pic? The finished clarity vs. the wash water and wet BD? That one sample, btw, has been sitting for weeks in a cool garage. 3/27's well. Will do the soap tests. Just wondering. Any thoughts?


It looks clear enough to be <1000ppm water. Of course you'd have to test it to know.
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/about72.html



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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here is a picture of biodiesel that has been over washed, there is no way to revese this screw up!


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When you say over washed do you mean that too much soap has been removed from the biodiesel?
quote:
Originally posted by Biotom:
here is a picture of biodiesel that has been over washed, there is no way to revese this screw up!
 
Registered: September 03, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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no, I mean too much close interaction between the biodiesel and water during agresive pump washing.


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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So you mean that after I make biodiesel that passes the 3/27 test, if I then water wash it too vigorously it will torn into what is in your picture and there is no way to save it.
Are you sure about that?
I have never heard of that before.
quote:
Originally posted by Biotom:
no, I mean too much close interaction between the biodiesel and water during agresive pump washing.
 
Registered: January 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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there was a referance to this at jtf a long time back, not sure if it is still there under pump washing.


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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WASHING- JTF website

...well-made biodiesel should separate quickly and cleanly from the wash water when it settles. But if the biodiesel isn't made properly it will contain half-processed oil molecules -- monoglycerides and diglycerides (MGs and DGs), which are emulsifiers.
Emulsifiers are used to make stable mixtures of oil and water, such as mayonnaise. If there's too much of it in your biodiesel, some of the biodiesel or all of it won't separate from the wash water, or at least not quickly, and in some cases maybe not for weeks. You have an emulsion...

Well-made biodiesel can take violent washing with a high-speed paint-stirrer without emulsifying...Pump washing atomizes the two fluids more quickly and thoroughly than propellor washing and can generate an emulsion in washing biodiesel with poor reaction completion...As long as the reaction completion is good, you can use the same pump you use for the biodiesel reaction to wash the fuel




quote:
Originally posted by Biotom:
there was a referance to this at jtf a long time back, not sure if it is still there under pump washing.
 
Registered: January 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wow it's been a long time since I've viewed that paint stir wash demo over at JTF. That said, I don't suggest anyone attempt it. I first learned about biodiesel over there, that was like 2004, when the site was last updated... A lot things have changed since then. If your gonna water wash, mist and bubble is by far the easiest, or hardest to screw up. Personally I don't feel you can over water wash biodiesel under this method, ya just end up with less and less fuel.

While speaking with the developer of the pHLip Test a while back about why his comparison samples looked good for so long compared to my fuel tests, he stated the fuel used in those samples was cold water washed about 6-8 times. So I tested it..

Don't over think this water wash process. There is actually no ASTM test for soaps if that tells ya anything. 50ppm or less is considered the standard, I'll burn 75-100ppm no questions ask. 120k on one 6.0L engine, 50k of that before I ever performed a chemical soap test.

If you do the 50/50 water/fuel in jar shake test and it separates out with fairly clear water and no big emulsion line between layers, your probably well under 100ppm. If it burns, it's fuel. Cool

-Ken

P.S. your sample looks fine..


Recycling & Green Fuels Research: www.altfuelsgroup.org
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Location: Southeastern Ohio | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but we've been pioneering a bunch of things that improve the process over in the UK. Many of the new methods are listed on biopowered.co.uk

But soaps are nailed firstly by dosing very accurately, which means doing away with titration and going over to 2 stage no titration dosing (more yield, fewer chems, less soaps). We neutralise the fuel with acid and test that it's neutral prior to adding water (add water in the presence of unspent lye and you generate more soaps). Use acetone prior to first wash and the soaps will drop more quickly. If you have a condenser then removing the meth after separating glycerin will help soaps drop quickly too.
 
Location: UK | Registered: February 10, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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if you add acid to the fuel containing soap the ffa are released back into to biodiesel.


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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