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Ok, so we came into the shop today and got ready to move the batch to settling after doing recovery and found our fuel to be a clear-ish black. We performed a density test on it (0.89, human error for the 0.01 off, but I'm 99% confident that its BD), soap test (Really stinking high, titrated with 20 ml), and the funny part when we double checked our methanol recovered, we got 3 gal vs the normal 1.5 gal back.

I would like to conjecture on what happened, but I have no clue. I searched around the forum and didn't see anything that lined up like this (Or I didn't search hard enough). I talked with Matt Steiman about it and his conclusion is that we probably overused our catalyst and should be find washing it. It did titrate at 8.3 with KOH, but we are using a two stage reaction now to deal with the higher titration WVO. Besides the BD and the methanol, everything was normal going into it.

Any thoughts?


-Andrew Kamerosky
Dickinson College '10
Environmental Studies and Geology
Biodiesel Intern
 
Location: Carlisle, PA | Registered: December 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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KamerosA
-did this product pass the 3/27 test if so it should be ready for the wash. sounds to me like you have suspened by-product in the biodiesel, this is not uncommon in the base/base process. If this is the case, you can also add back the by-product from the first base stage, that will help to gather it all up. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It did indeed pass the 27/3, so we will try with adding back the glycerin and see what happens. We are going to play with different ways over the next month to clean it up enough to wash it. When we tried a simulated wash, it emulsified (Even with using hot water in a spray bottle). Though the isopropyl did seem to clean it out...


-Andrew Kamerosky
Dickinson College '10
Environmental Studies and Geology
Biodiesel Intern
 
Location: Carlisle, PA | Registered: December 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If it emulsified with a spray bottle, possible the nozzle was too close to the bio or too sharp of a stream. Start with hot bio and be very gentle. If it still is a problem then do several static washes. Just pour hot water into hot bio and let it sit. Repeat 2 times then try misting again. With your emulsified stuff reheat it and it should separate.


It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.
 
Location: northwest Ind | Registered: July 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by KamerosA:
Ok, so we came into the shop today and got ready to move the batch to settling after doing recovery and found our fuel to be a clear-ish black. We performed a density test on it (0.89, human error for the 0.01 off, but I'm 99% confident that its BD), soap test (Really stinking high, titrated with 20 ml), and the funny part when we double checked our methanol recovered, we got 3 gal vs the normal 1.5 gal back.

I would like to conjecture on what happened, but I have no clue. I searched around the forum and didn't see anything that lined up like this (Or I didn't search hard enough). I talked with Matt Steiman about it and his conclusion is that we probably overused our catalyst and should be find washing it. It did titrate at 8.3 with KOH, but we are using a two stage reaction now to deal with the higher titration WVO. Besides the BD and the methanol, everything was normal going into it.

Any thoughts?


Did you recover your methanol prior to seperating the glycerin or after the glycerine layer was removed?
 
Location: central virginia | Registered: March 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The only black biodiesel I've seen was made using super critical method. What color was your feedstock?


Kumar Plocher
Yokayo Biofuels
Yokayo Biofuels Facebook page
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Sustainable Biodiesel...
 
Location: Ukiah, CA USA | Registered: September 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hey Kumar, sorry about losing track of this discussion. We are using WVO that used to titrate at 5-7 but now is in the teens.

This has happened again, but now I have pictures! I'm at a loss for whats happening and now that this has happened a second time with new lye, I can rule out bad catalyst and overuse of catalyst. Follow the link for the pictures.


-Andrew Kamerosky
Dickinson College '10
Environmental Studies and Geology
Biodiesel Intern
 
Location: Carlisle, PA | Registered: December 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by KamerosA:
We are using WVO that used to titrate at 5-7 but now is in the teens.



yikes what happened to your sources? Please name them so if I'm out there again I don't eat at any of those places!



 
Registered: April 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by freesoul:
quote:
Originally posted by KamerosA:
We are using WVO that used to titrate at 5-7 but now is in the teens.



yikes what happened to your sources? Please name them so if I'm out there again I don't eat at any of those places!


Haha, we think it came from our War College account but trying to narrow it down. So if your military and stopping by Carlisle, I would suggest not eating at the college.


-Andrew Kamerosky
Dickinson College '10
Environmental Studies and Geology
Biodiesel Intern
 
Location: Carlisle, PA | Registered: December 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your pictures look similar to the way our fuel looks (ours isn't quite as nasty looking)after our 1st stage dosing. Looks to me like it's just not done reacting. Just a thought.
 
Registered: September 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I used to get black wvo from a certain source which gave very dark biodiesel. On enquiring I found that they fried a lot of mushrooms in it which turned the oil black.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think some people run up to 20% waste engine oil mixed into biodiesel or normal diesel tho 10% seems to be normal, but I havent heard of anyone trying to run higher percentages.

You cant really make anything out of it, at least not in a domestic situation. Theres no chemistry involved which will make it into something else, its just a case of thinning/mixing it. If you have a centrifuge that helps to clean it up a lot.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by kumar:
The only black biodiesel I've seen was made using super critical method. What color was your feedstock?


Dear Kumar

Do you mean that the supercritical method(SCM) is not good to make biodiesel as it make it with black color I read many researches for the advantages of using SCM as it little time, no titration required, deal with any FFA% and also deal with any water content
can you correct me if I am wrong
 
Registered: January 19, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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