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no titration 2 stage dosing
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Is anyone on here using the no-titration 2 stage method? Across the pond, it use has led to few soaps produced, greater yield, less lye required and less meth.

The process involves using a 10/90 test after the first dose and glyc separation, which determines the number of litres left to dose. The remaining veg oil is accurately address (7 grams per litre - koh or 5 grams NaOh). Meth is down to 16% by volume overall divided into 80% first dose and 20% 2nd dose. First dose is done on the basis of 7 grams per litre with KOH and 5 grams NaOh - can't remember the amount for ASM.
 
Location: UK | Registered: February 10, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am using the no titration method shamelessly borrowed for the UK. I run approx. 80% of the methanol on the first run, and adjust for the second run based on 90/10 results. 2% ASM works for both the first and second runs in my system.

I still use around 20% methanol based on original oil volume. I do recover methanol from glycerin so I have not tried to reduce the methanol used.
 
Location: Virginia | Registered: March 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Excuse me please, but what ASM stands for?


° can be diplayed, by using Alt+248(NumPad)
 
Location: Bulgaria | Registered: August 31, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Anhydrous Sodium Methylate
 
Location: UK | Registered: October 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In the USA we call the stuff "Sodium Methylate".
 
Location: Virginia | Registered: March 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi!
What no titration 2 stage method are you fellows talking about?
The only one I know about is the one on the wiki. It only uses 3.5g NAOH or 5g KOH and no mention of Anhydrous Sodium Methylate http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wi...ss_with_no_titration

I tried it twice but it was a disaster both times. I had to toss all the oil. My friend Richard said that 3.5g NAOH was not enough for the first stage for my oil titrating 5.
 
Location: Louisiana | Registered: February 17, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
The only one I know about is the one on the wiki.
I tried it twice but it was a disaster both times.

only one you know --> no good

better information here than any 'wiki', learn how to use 'find' function



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The method works, but it is not standardized. To get the reductions in methanol requires some experimentation to tailor the method to your specific oil. The method also calls for Sodium Methylate (ASM), which is more difficult to obtain than either NaOH or KOH.

In my opinion, the reduction in methanol is mostly due to the use of sodium methylate and using two base stages. Giving up the titration in favor of adjusting the second stage recipe probably uses more methanol than titrating and using neutral's base/base method.

Again, in my opinion, not titrating is the main advantage of using the "no tit" method.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by RickDaTech:
The method works, but it is not standardized. To get the reductions in methanol requires some experimentation to tailor the method to your specific oil. The method also calls for Sodium Methylate (ASM), which is more difficult to obtain than either NaOH or KOH.
RickDaTech, I looked at the methods in your link and you recommend using 5g NAOH instead of the 3.5g in the instructions on the wiki. Is that what you mean by not standardized? Do you think that is the reason it dos not work for me? Richard did say 3.5g NAOH was not enough for the first stage and your instructions say to use 5g.
I can not find anywhere in your instructions or the instructions on the wiki that say to use ASM. All it says is to use methanol.
 
Location: Louisiana | Registered: February 17, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Poppy, My preference for oil like yours is to use KOH.

Your 3.5 g /liter is not enough for your oil. you wouldn't get separation. the only thing it would do is lower your titration number by a little more than half. no biodiesel.

Another option for you to consider is the acid/base two stage.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ive used no titration method several times and had good sucess with oil titrating under 4ml KOH, above that it becomes unreliable. So the problem as I see it is if your oil supply is not consistently below 4ml KOH you still have to titrate to make sure it is suitable for the method.
It does save on KOH but its a small saving. It will produce less soap and that is a big advantage for those who use water washing or Heat and Settle to remove soap. I dry wash so it makes no difference to me.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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