BP, you know my attitude towards the government. Do I believe they would "move the goal posts"? Well, what have they ALWAYS done?

Like Tilly said a "free" license. Funny thing, they did that with the gun laws to, and allowed people to register their guns for free (except for the inspection fee paid to quisling gun clubs). Of course, then the bans of different types of guns starts. We just had magazine size, and bullet size and barrel length (a 11 round magazine is bad, 10 is good - a .40 caliber is bad, a .38 caliber is good - a 3.5" barrel is bad, a 4" barrel is good) And guess who the dummy is that has to pay for these "buy-backs", the dumbed down taxpayer. I have watched them ban rifles because they had a pistol grip??? There is one section of the Prohibited Weapons Act that bans rifles because they LOOK like a self loading firearm (even if the rifle is completely non-functioning). If you started running now, you would still never be able to catch up to the goal posts.

Realistically, the only workable solution for the homemade biodiesel issue is the BEER solution. Get the exemption for homemade biodiesel and everybody can get on with the rest of their lives.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry Syd:
BP, you know my attitude towards the government. Do I believe they would "move the goal posts"? Well, what have they ALWAYS done?

SNIP
Realistically, the only workable solution for the homemade biodiesel issue is the BEER solution. Get the exemption for homemade biodiesel and everybody can get on with the rest of their lives.

---

Well Said Terry
The BEER Campaign will rise again, when the time is right.
Unfortunately, the ATO is charged with upholding the law, and cannot amend the law. Only the Politicians can do that, and there are very few enviromnentally aware politicians in the OZ Government. In fact in the whole parliament, tou would be lucky to find more than twenty who are aware of the issues or more than five who will stand up for the environment at all.
It is a pity that the environment, which is so important to all of us is not recognised more widely, as being damageded to the extent that it is.
A newspaper article on Sunday reported that the price of Petrol will be Au$10 per litre by 2010.
I will scan and post the article.
Article in Sunday Times Oct 31, 2004

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tony from West Oz (The Wizard of Oz),

Tony, like you said most politicians, indeed most voters, don't really give a hoot about the environment. However, they pay attention when prices of petrol go up.

The Peak Oil problems are much worse than most people realise. It is not just the price of fuel at the pump that will affect them, it will be other costs, like food, that will begin to rise.

Further,the Australian economic system is based upon debt/interest/fractional reserve concepts that demand that the society have growth.

To illustrate the principles and simplify the example, let's say you and Tilly are the only two people in society (or maybe you both represent 10 million), let's say I am the bank. I loan you $100 at 10% and I loan Tilly $100 at 10%. You are forced to use my "legal tender" for all transactions and payments of debts.

At the end of the year, Tilly pays me the principal and the interest due - $110. Now, think hard, how much money is left in circulation?

Only $90 - you can't repay your loan and I take your house.

Most people don't realise that the banking system is a game of musical chairs. When the music stops, some people don't have chairs.

When the growth of our economy goes negative, when other countries can't/won't buy our products - there are going to be a lot of chairs missing.

We really need to keep pushing this issue that backyard biodiesel is a partial solution to our energy problems. Actually, what else is there that provides the economic benefits that homemade biodiesel does? Nothing that I can think of. In fact, I was thinking of calling my home processor the "Something" and the name of my company "They Inc." - it would be a take-off on the hackneyed phrase we all hear from Sally SUV who says "don't worry, they will think of something".

Maybe it might start people to think about who "they" are and just what kind of "something" is going to save their sorry backsides.

In case you didn't know it, the government is not in the oil companies pockets. In fact, they have dumped heaps of taxpayers money into alternative energy. I love this quote from Mc Farlane -

"IAN MACFARLANE: But we need to get on the record just what has been spent."

Hey Ian, just because you spent lots and lots of taxpayers money, doesn't mean it was put to good use. I would love to get a record of just where all that money went.

ABC Article

OK guys, I just got back from a trip and there was a letter from the "Office of the Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer - The Hon Mal Brough MP" (can you'll say that in one breath?)

I decided to put the contents of his letter on this thread as it would allow a new reader to go back a read how all these arguments have been met before - contents of letter follows.

As you may be aware, on 13 May 2003 the Government announced long-term reforms to the excise treatment of fuels. The reforms establish a broad sustainable taxation framework for fuels, by addressing a number of anomolies in the current fuel tax system and providing increased long-term certainty for investors.

The Government's announcement does not include an excise exemption for the production of biodiesel for personal use. This accords with the general principle that excisable fuel production is subject to the provisions of the excise licensing regime in which the criteria to be satisfied are normally directed to commercial-scale production. Moreover, small-scale, non-commercial manufacture of biodiesel is not desireable because of the hazardous nature of the chemicals involved, and because such fuels typically do not meet the quality standards necessary for clean emissions and long engine life.

The Opposition supported the Government on this matter when the legislation passed through Parliament on 15 June 2004. Under the terms of the Excise Tariff Amendment (Fuels) Act 2004, the production of home-made or unlicensed biodiesel is now illegal.

I trust this information will be of assistance to you.

Yours sincerely
Haydn Daw
Senior Taxation Adviser

Article on Australian Peak Oil

Australia's oil decline

Terry,
Can we get that link onto the BEER site?
Tony

Tony, I think Mike is still in a position to modify the site. I know the site is still being looked at as I had a fellow call me yesterday after reading the site.

Going into the next elections we will have to hit this issue hard. People have to wake up to what is going on.

Peak Oil appears to have hit. Saudi Arabia peaked last year, but will likely drop off the plateau in the next couple of years when the Ghawar field collapses, Great Britian is now a net importer now that the North Sea Fields are depleting, Indonesia is now a net importer (an OPEC member!).

The amount of denial on this issue of Peak Oil is extrodinary. I re-read the "Oil" article I wrote back in 1999 (which was pretty pesimistic at the time) and realised that I was actually a bit optimistic in my timetable.

I haven't seen the news of Australia's oil decline in the Australian news, instead I had to get the information from a Canadian article, typical, just bloody typical, treat the dumbed down masses like mushrooms.

Maybe now we see where the emphasis came from for reviewing the "Liquid Fuel Emergency Act". Those useless eaters in Parliament have no ideas of how to handle this problem other than by rationing.

Quote "the hazardous nature of the chemicals involved, and because such fuels typically do not meet the quality standards necessary for clean emissions and long engine life."

This Subjective statement by a Senior Taxation Adviser presumably working for the ATO (Haydn Daws)appears to be the evolution of the proccess to classify an important renewable energy technology (namely Last Years well Used and Rerefined Vegetable oil Crop) as Dangerous,Antisocial,Dirty,Polluting and most of all Unwarrantable or Destructive.(almost as bad as the Drug P)
All of which we know are laughable and hypocritical.
However with no loud voices in opposition to this gross missinformation and with the speak being decidedly aggresive and tending towards stamping out this scurg we must all be willing to make a stand or be labled Criminals.
The legislation as it stands is totally untested the terms of reference are ours, the real issues (environment)are not invested in the wording .
Gunns and the tassie government can get away with environmental carnage just the same way that this present Australian government can forsake the future of our environment and children for the short term greed of big buisiness and the large saleries of Daws and his Ilk.
The clean emmisions bit really got me fortunately this is one issue that can be challenged and easily proven ,the engine long life statement would be a real no goer in a proper justice system.
The reason BP can lower SULPHUR in their new Fuel to 50 parts per million from 500 is the reason it is now ILLEGAL for us to Make our own what a joke Wake up Plebs or just go to sleep .
Next it will be legal to put 10/80 in our breakfast cereal because it could suppress cancer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fato,

Quote "the hazardous nature of the chemicals involved, and because such fuels typically do not meet the quality standards necessary for clean emissions and long engine life."

Fato, the "hazardous nature of the chemicals involved" is a red herring that was dealt with in the first letter to Coonan. The "clean emissions" herring was dealt with in the second letter to Coonan. The "long engine life" herring is just that, another red herring.

Do you really think the Treasury is worried about engine life? We who have been making and using biodiesel for years (of any type and quality) know the engine life argument is pure BS. If this "advisor" from Treasury has some emperical data that we have not had access to (although we have been aggresively scanning any report that surfaces for years) then he should reveal it - as they say; put up or shut up.

That's not going happen, because it doesn't exist. The extra lubricity of biodiesel increase long engine life. There may be other issues about polymerisation of engine oil, or excess viscosity in low conversion biodiesel overloading a fuel pump, but those are issues that are under the control of the producer/operator. You know, change your oil more often or increase the amount of methanol in your process.

There is clearly an agenda behind Treasury that is not stated in their replies. Instead we get BS that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

After multiple goal post movings (I've lost count gang), it is apparent that these pollies will say anything to fob you off so that they can continue to get on with whatever it is they are doing behind closed doors.

Likewise, from what I can see in the homemade biodiesel scene, the politicians are not the only ones using the "behind closed doors" policy

Perhaps with Beazley as the new leader of Labor there might be an open door to give the sitting Government a full on serve of reality.

Gents,
With the new Labour leader having been installed recently, perhaps it is time to start presenting this issue to the politicians again.

If we rest on our laurels, it may be too late to resurrect the campaign later. I feel that we should start sending primers on biodiesel to our local MPs and additional information to the Ministers/ shadow Ministers for environment, industry, defence, etc.

The question is WHEN should we start the campaign?
Are we too small to make a difference ? - NO, remember, the squealy wheel gets the oil - We need to be VERY SQUEAKY about the BEER campaign.

Tony
Going to the wall on this is possibly the best way .
Who ever heard of BioDiesel before Mr Tickle wrote his book ,lets keep co-hesive (in touch like) and report any intrusions into our morally sound practices,Illegallity perterbs vaste numbers of suburban idealists and secures our supply.Only those whom value the ideals of this movement will now risk the challenge to confront the hypocracy and missinformation that is manifest.
You dont make Bio Diesel as such and neither do I ,However we do utilise a waste product in an environmentally responsible fashion to enable us to make a difference to the impact each of us have on the environment and I challenge any politician or administrator to disprove us on this fact and justify to me/us (and the community at large) the Ability to lable me a criminal for such.
Kims being there before so we have a choice of old Kim or old John not much of a choice in my book,Peter Garrett I Thought might make some noise but hes still getting over the bash he got got from getting in ,in the first place ,hasnt said a word of importance since .
Good lobby Pete get him motivated but probably hes got more important issues to address first like cutting old growth forest in Tasmanias world heritage areas.
I say lets just keep on doing the right thing morally and band together to fight injustise if this occures ,keep tight and in touch ,dont make any noise ,keep below the radar,be responsible ,keep talking shareing info and perfecting,go silent if need be (private Like)dont lobby unless someone makes a stand to honestly submit our case,If you read the submisions on the standard, Neutral and others made solid suggestions which were totally ignored in the final drapht of the current legislation ,this is a sad fact and we must accept this for now,as was made clear by DAWS in his recent crosspost (re Terry)the opposition supported the current stand forget the opposition unless they can take the initiative we all know we can run our motors on BEES WAX.

Untill they put an excise tax on LPG and CNG they dont have a leg to stand on ,Would you agree with me legally on this point Terry

Daw(s) in his classic statement to our community said
Quote "As you may be aware, on 13 May 2003 the Government announced long-term reforms to the excise treatment of fuels. The reforms establish a broad sustainable taxation framework for fuels, by addressing a number of anomolies in the current fuel tax system and providing increased long-term certainty for investors.

The Government's announcement does not include an excise exemption for the production of biodiesel for personal use. This accords with the general principle that excisable fuel production is subject to the provisions of the excise licensing regime in which the criteria to be satisfied are normally directed to commercial-scale production. Moreover, small-scale, non-commercial manufacture of biodiesel is not desireable because of the hazardous nature of the chemicals involved, and because such fuels typically do not meet the quality standards necessary for clean emissions and long engine life.

The Opposition supported the Government on this matter when the legislation passed through Parliament on 15 June 2004. Under the terms of the Excise Tariff Amendment (Fuels) Act 2004, the production of home-made or unlicensed biodiesel is now illegal."

Summorising this statement from Daw(s) All those making this product without a licence are criminals ,they are jeopodiseing the environment and using dangerous chemicals to do so ,further they are compromising the reliability of their machinary and they are commiting the crime of tax avoidance .
What he failed to mention was the much touted excise excemption for clean green fossil based fuel granted to gaseous fuels namely LPG and CNG.
REQUOTE "on 13 May 2003 the Government announced long-term reforms to the excise treatment of fuels. The reforms establish a broad sustainable taxation framework for fuels, by addressing a number of anomolies in the current fuel tax system and providing increased long-term certainty for investors."
This government failed to address the fact that these fuels(LPG, CNG) have been exempt from excise due to their environmentally (apparent)favourable emmisions and this has been so for many years.
I fail to see how this can be justified in the explaination of "providing increased long-term certainty for investors."and as the the submissions stated if they had been read ,applied equally if not more so for vegetable based fuels and their derivatives regardless of their constitution or purity .
"The reforms establish a broad sustainable taxation framework for fuels, by addressing a number of anomolies in the current fuel tax system"
"the general principle that excisable fuel production is subject to the provisions of the excise licensing regime in which the criteria to be satisfied are normally directed to commercial-scale production."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fato,

A furthur loophole to this dillema is to use the BEER example to produce fuel at home for home use who said you have to drink it.

Terry Syd
How strange I received the exact same letter from Mal Brough and I am writing a reply to him through my own local M.P.

Moonshine, I have not bothered to reply to the last letter. They have probably had enough of me. However, it would please me no end to see a bunch of other people start hitting them over the head and shoulders on this issue.

Why don't you see if this clever little advisor has got those reports about engine longivity handy? Oh yeah, in case he hasn't read all the previous correspondence with Coonan office, maybe you could "cut and paste" all those previous arguments. I think this thread has them all.

It will be a hoot to see what the new "goal posts" will be.

The Gladstone oil shale project is dead again. Whereas the Canberra Clowns are trying to kill off the backyard biodiesel crowd (which provides an economically sound renewable energy) they have spent squillions of bucks on these kind of black holes for taxpayers money.

Quote
"SPP had promoted the Stuart project for three decades and it had been provided with a raft of government assistance packages, including excise relief and research and development grants, as well as funds to offset the $11 million cost of a new wharf in Gladstone harbour."

Article

I'll be attending a meeting with Treasury and the ATO next week on the backyard biodiesel issue. As soon as I get back I'll let everyone know what happened.

Come to think of it, if you haven't vented your spleen to the Treasury on this issue, why not do it now. Give them a fax or a letter (emails die with the delete button) and tell them what your feelings are about backyard biodiesel. It would be nice to go into the meeting with heaps of support from around Australia. The meeting is on Friday the 11th of March. So try and get the messages across to them by Thursday.

Well, well - look what an Ozzie politician wrote. Bugger me, looks like there are a few of them who may have a clue. I wrote McNamara a nice email to congratulate him on his foresight and the depth of his speech. You may want to send him a note to give him some more encouragement. Heck, send his speech to your own politician and ask him why he isn't up to speed on this issue, I am.

Speech

Here's an interesting article that discusses the problem of taking a perfectly good food, vegetable oil, and turning into a fuel.

Of course, the homemade biodiesel producer only takes the waste vegetable oil after it has been used in food processing.

Food or fuel