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Looping WVO Return without a Filter?
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HI All,

I've got a 1999 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve that I am redoing the WVO system on right now.

The build keeps the heated filter close to the tank since I am running a separate fuel pump on the WVO system. Like so:

Tank > Arctic Fox Heated Fuel Pickup > Wvo Designs heated filter > Wvo Designs Fuel Pump > Wvo designs solenoid valve > Injector pump.

I'm upgrading the fuel line size for both diesel and wvo at the same time to 1/2" inside diameter. I have not found a small inline filter that I could throw in as a safety net with something that size yet.

Since my filter is way in the back, I would loose all the heat gain from looping the wvo return 15', uninsulated back into the bed.

My question is: Is it safe to run a looped return from the return line solenoid valve to the wvo intake line unfiltered? Or do I need to run a filter on the 5/16 return line coming into the return solenoid valve?

Thanks!
 
Location: Western Slope, CO | Registered: March 22, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I like FPHE's and I am in FL. You should consider that for CO. If you really wanted you could mount it in the engine bay and make your loop to the FPHE.
Are you coolant heating the tank in the back. Yes, because you have the heated Pick-up. Why not just return to WVO tank. I like PEX for fuel line it is cheap, reliable and easy to work with. Bundle the fuel line from tank to the engine with the coolant and you can just add the return line to the bundle and have it return to tank. Bundle it with insulation and tape to keep everything hot.


Robert
In Fort Lauderdale running a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD 2 veg tanks HOH 2 upgraded greasecar vavles 3/8 fuel line 5/8 heater line HOH Hose wrapped filter. Injector Line heater on the Common Rail. 2nd car 2005 Mercedes CDI, Raw Power fuel pump, 36 gallon veg tank in trunk coolant heated HOH, rubber hose wrapped fuel filter, FPHE, 3 greasecar valves, Common rail line heater.
 
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL | Registered: June 01, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Andy,
IMHO, these is what I would recommend seeing you live in CO:
1) Use aluminum for fuel lines - aluminum absorbs heat fast - IMHO PEX is slow - Summit Racing #SUM-G2512, 1" x 50' $71.97
2) The radiator hose for the HIH should be at least 1" diameter - more coolant volume around the fuel line - Summit Racing
SUM-G2512 @ $71.97 - 1" x 50'
3) Place the VO heated filter as close to the FHPE to conserve as much heated VO as possible - put the filter under pressure rather than vacuum. Leaks are easier to find
4) Insulate the HIH and fuel lines with closed cellPipe Wrap - Home Depot 1/2" x 6' @ $1.78 ea)
5) With the Hot Fox installed and living in winter temps, take advantage of the HF and run the VO fuel line back to the trunk VO tank
6) Add a MB aux water pump PN 013 000 2070 ($90) to push the coolant water down the radiator hose - shortens switch over time to keep the VO warm - less strain on the VO pump
7) Insulate the FPHE with Armacell 2"x30' R1, Home Depot Sku 329131 $8)
8) Keep as much road wind from cooling the VO components - use wind dams in front of components to deflect
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Alternatively, if you live where it gets cold enough to snow a lot and stays below freezing for weeks, then you can avoid the complex and expensive leak-prone fittings with the HIH, and run HOH or PEX TubeOnHose, bundled in foam insulation, and use a bigger FPHE. With a heated fuel pick-up, the VO only has to stay warm enough to flow in the fuel lines. Insulated HOH\TOH provides all the heat needed with a lot less cost and complexity. All of the useful heating happens in the FPHE right before the filter and the IP. Make sure the FPHE is on it's own dedicated coolant loop with no other components in series. Run all the other VO heating in series on a separate parallel loop. With two parallel loops you won't need the aux coolant pump. Multiple layers of aluminum foil make good radiant insulating wind dams in the engine compartment.
I agree with the other suggestions.

Here's a handy inline filter:
Wix 33972 / Napa 3972 Fuel Filter



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Andy,
The Western side of CO suggests cold and snow. HEAT is the best friend VO can have - more heat the better! If you are upgrading the D2 and VO to 1/2" lines, then why not use the aluminum HIH for the VO. The idea is to use the engine coolant to gain as much heat as possible. I ran the HOH, HIH with PEX and finally aluminum HIH. Best results, IMHO, is the aluminum HIH. Seemed to have hotter oil coming into the VO FASS pump. I would still use the coolant water to warm up the VO fuel tank. Here are two reasons for a heated VO tank:
(1) Depending on how well the VO is cleaned, the amount of fats in the VO could solidify and lay on the bottom and might be sucked into the VO pickup tube, thus, reduces VO filter life, make the VO pump work harder to draw cold oil all the way from the tank.
(2) Aluminum conducts heat faster - thus the VO will warm up faster from direct contact with the coolant water.
(3) Engine water pumps are designed to circulate water in the block. Adding additional 20'+ radiator hose would additional load to the water pump. By adding the MB aux water pump, the VO would get warmer master therefore switch over time is would be shorter. Consider the resistance created by the length of the hose.
(4) A Greater San Diego Grease member slit a white 4" drain hard shell lengthwise the sapped around the HIH and attached it to the inside of the chassis of the Dodge PU. He drilled small 1/16" holes about 14" apart and squirted foam insulation inside the 4" pipe. He wanted protection from road rash.
(5) On my MB, the VO is returned just before the VO fuel pump.
(6) Closest to the coolant water outlet, plumb the MB aux water pump, then FPHE for the most heat gain, then the VO fuel, then down to the VO tank. Can't stress enough - HEAT is VO's best friend.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Closest to the coolant water outlet, plumb the MB aux water pump, then FPHE for the most heat gain, then the VO fuel, then down to the VO tank.


DO NOT do this. Placing the components in series on one loop significantly reduces flow and then REQUIRES a dedicated pump for the loop; more wasted energy and still less heat xfered to VO. Don't waste money on another pump, use a separate parallel coolant loop for the FPHE and use the money saved to buy a bigger FPHE. HIH is another obsolete waste of money and time; it's not needed with a correctly sized FPHE. Systems that work reliably in Alaska will work anywhere in Canada and the Lower48 where it snows.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Before I installed the MB aux water pump, the VO temp before the FPHE was quite a bit lower than when the aux was installed. Hard to explain why that was. Think of the amount of time the coolant water will take to make the trip down 12+feet just to get to the VO pickup tube with using the engine's water pump? MB company installed the aux pump for a reason. The aux pump pushes a large amt of water through a radiator hose. For those greasers who have installed the aux pump, they have stated switch over time is cut in half. If the coolant water is picked up after the cab outlet, then there should be no problem. Not a waste of money in my book as the sooner I can switch from D2 to VO, the less D2 I have to purchase. The switch over time from D2 to VO does add up over time. As far as the size of the FPHE goes, the number of plates do make a difference in the amount of heat the VO will be absorbed. 16 plates, 40 plates, or how many are needed. My point is to get as much heat to the VO no matter where it is in the system. There are many statements about how hot the VO should be when it in the IP. I want the VO as hot as I can get it using coolant water. VO fuel pumps cost too much to replace, so I make it as easy possible to pump WARM VO rather than cold VO. It's your money!
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Before I installed the MB aux water pump, the VO temp before the FPHE was quite a bit lower than when the aux was installed.

Yes, that compensated for the bad design with all the VO heating components in series. Not hard to explain at all, just basic thermodynamics and hydronic system design.

Warm climates are very forgiving for bad or marginal designs. I speak from experience, note the location.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK and from the coldest location in North America , describe your design and components.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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See messages above.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As in your past posts on various Forums, nothing specific, i.e. number of plates in the FPHE, no diagram of the system , where the coolant is connected to the system, nothing specific as to component brands. Even the place where you reside is non-specific! As far as experience goes to criticize other's posts, you got me by 6 months of joining Forums. Seems that many of the companies that sell WVO kits follow about the same pattern of conversion. How'd that happen?
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't respond to personal comments on the open forum.

Just to be abundantly clear, I have not been critical of your posts, the criticism has been very specifically addressed to the design faults; it's not been personal as anyone can see.

Have a nice day.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
DO NOT do this. Placing the components in series on one loop significantly reduces flow and then REQUIRES a dedicated pump for the loop;


The above quote seems a critical comment - not to you?. You and I have gone round and round in the past years on various forums. Good bantering back and forth. But really! Answer the question - post your best design. I have posted pics of my CF cleaning room on VO Forums, tips that have worked for me, and suggestions not critical comments. Let's see what you got.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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see messages above or use the search function
authors of any more personal comments will be placed on my ignore list



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Reasonable and specific design questions will be answered, personal badgering and attempts at coercion will be ignored. Play nice or go home.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Reasonable and specific design questions will be answered,

Same question to you - please post the VO design on your vehicle?
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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specific design questions will be answered

The best VO system design is already described in my previous messages. Anyone who can't figure it out from that shouldn't be trying to run VO fuel.

We're done here, bye.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by john galt:

authors of any more personal comments will be placed on my ignore list


Don't you just love the way that's said that like its a threat or would be a Bad thing?
Personally I think not haveing to deal with the stupid and self centered replys to my posts is a BLESSING!
It's an entertaining ruse but I think it's pretty common knowledge that ego alone would prevent missing out on something someone may say. :0)

Noticed how the request to put up or shut up has been convinently side stepped?
If the request was to post an out of context extract from a news article to say the exact opposite of what it did say but was the side of the argument championed, there would be 10 here before you could hit the refresh button!
 
Registered: July 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Taking your suggestion of searching all your posts. I've gone to every 397 posts of John Galt on this forum, but couldn't find any post that deals with you VO diagram. Lots of discussion on Global Warming. Saw the line drawing on your upflow system. I'm not looking for a fight by asking ligit questions - only information to compare the VO conversion on my '87 MB 300SDL to your design. I don' think I'm asking too much.
 
Registered: October 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Ignore Function is an effective tool for dealing with trolls who try to turn a discussion into a personal confrontation. LftClk on the troll's name then Clk on 'add to ignore list'. All messages from the troll are removed from your screen. Like AdBlock it's one of the most useful tools on the net.

If someone wants to address a member personally then use the Personal Message function, also accessed by LftClk on the member's name.

Most of the useful discussions on the forum are now in the personal message section where an invited group of users can have a civil discussion and share information in a troll-free zone.

Learn to use the forum tools to your advantage, and don't feed trolls.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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