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Centrifuge to clean Biodiesel???
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Hello all,
I am a new member here and had some questions. I wanted to know if anyone is using a centrifuge to clean their biodiesel AFTER processing? Here is what I am doing now and what I am thinking. I have an 80 Gal. processor that I use the 80/20 method for processing. I then add 5% water to the mix for pre wash to remove any of the remaining methanol from the batch. I let the batch settle and drain off the glycerol/prewash water mix. If I run the batch through a centrifuge at this point will I need to do any further water wash??? Any thoughts or info would be greatly appreciated.
 
Registered: April 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you are set up with equipment like that why not just add resin purification after the CF ? No water required.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My impression was that the CF would take the place of the resin. I need the water in the pre wash to stop the process and demeth the bio. I don't want to use resin at all. Will the CF do the job without any other wash process be it water or dry???
 
Registered: April 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I started this last summer, I make 250 gallon batches and use 2 spinnerIIs, with the pre was it takes about 20 hours to get 250 gallons down to 50ppm soap, without wash it takes 36 hours to get it down to 100ppm soap.
With this method it is all about centrifuge volume as in GPM, for your batch size one spinnerII would likely get you clean pretty fast.
I should also add, I vacuum demeth in the processor, soap will NOT fuge out at all if any methanol remains in the bio.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks fabricator! So does the 5% water pre wash not remove enough meth? I don't have any other way to demeth but to use water.
I guess I can mist wash once before sending it through the CF a few times. Do I need to do more then that to demeth?? I'm trying to use as little water as I can for obvious reasons.

Vacuum Demeth??? Can you elaborate?
 
Registered: April 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you are going to distill the methanol before you wash, then you run a risk of having your reaction reverse a little bit. You can add acid to your batch (slowly) and use a pH indicator to provide a visual reference as to when you have neutralized any remaining catalyst - reference the GL push / pull processor thread(s).

Once you start distilling the methanol out you will start seeing the soap start dropping out rapidly as you start getting to lower and lower concentrations of methanol. Once all the methanol is gone, you can get the gross soap out using a screen filter, and then use a centrifuge such a spinner II (or similar) to get the remaining soap out.
 
Registered: May 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by robv:
Thanks fabricator! So does the 5% water pre wash not remove enough meth? I don't have any other way to demeth but to use water.
I guess I can mist wash once before sending it through the CF a few times. Do I need to do more then that to demeth?? I'm trying to use as little water as I can for obvious reasons.

Vacuum Demeth??? Can you elaborate?


No, the prewash will not remove all the remaining methanol, you can demeth just by bubbling or spraying the bio.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogma721:
If you are going to distill the methanol before you wash, then you run a risk of having your reaction reverse a little bit. You can add acid to your batch (slowly) and use a pH indicator to provide a visual reference as to when you have neutralized any remaining catalyst - reference the GL push / pull processor thread(s).

Once you start distilling the methanol out you will start seeing the soap start dropping out rapidly as you start getting to lower and lower concentrations of methanol. Once all the methanol is gone, you can get the gross soap out using a screen filter, and then use a centrifuge such a spinner II (or similar) to get the remaining soap out.


In my experience using KOH, the remaining soap will not readily drop out even with most of the methanol out, but a fuge will get it.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not distilling. I'm not doing anything other then what I stated above.
I process using the 80/20 method and 5% pre wash. I currently wash with water.
First misting the water for the first wash and then a series of bubble washes until the water is relatively clear. I am not looking to recover the meth at this point and do not want to add any other equipment to the mix with the exception of the CF. I just don't want to use all of the water and want to know if the CF will work to "Wash" the biodiesel after the prewash. Will the prewash take out enough methanol by itself or do I need to wash with more water?
Thanks again!
 
Registered: April 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by fabricator:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by robv:


No, the prewash will not remove all the remaining methanol, you can demeth just by bubbling or spraying the bio.


Correct me if I'm wrong but you are saying to spray the bio so that the meth evaporates. Is that correct? I usualy mist the batch with water (about 35 gallons) after the pre wash and I drain the glyc. Is that enough??
 
Registered: April 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Maybe, you would have to try it.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can vouch for what fabricator is saying. I've used a Dieselcraft centrifuge to take out the soap. It does take a long time to get it out.

Another alternative is to use the centrifuge after magnesol.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I am trying to do the same thing as RobV.

If I CF the biodiesel after the 5% prewash, do I or should I heat the Bio?
The heat should speed up the process. I have two heating elements inline and use it to pre filter the WVO, but I am looking at changing things and using the CF to polish the BioD. instead.

Danny


05 CRD and 07 Dodge 2500. Both on B100
 
Location: Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: November 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It has been discussed here before about how difficult it is to centrifuge soap out of biodiesel. Heat is the enemy. When you centrifuge biodiesel you increase the temperature because of friction. This takes biodiesel that would normally drop out soap due to gravity, time and low temperature and creates an environment where soap is suspended in the biodiesel due to the increased temperature. Some have suggested that lowering the temperature of the biodiesel through a condensor or such may allow you to remove the soap with a centrifuge, but nobody has come up with a plan that makes economical sense. That's my 2$ worth adjusted for inflation. Wink
 
Location: Chambodia | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Eurocab:
It has been discussed here before about how difficult it is to centrifuge soap out of biodiesel. Heat is the enemy. When you centrifuge biodiesel you increase the temperature because of friction. This takes biodiesel that would normally drop out soap due to gravity, time and low temperature and creates an environment where soap is suspended in the biodiesel due to the increased temperature. Some have suggested that lowering the temperature of the biodiesel through a condensor or such may allow you to remove the soap with a centrifuge, but nobody has come up with a plan that makes economical sense. That's my 2$ worth adjusted for inflation. Wink


What about running the biodiesel through the CF after the meth. has been removed?

I am just looking for the easiest method of filtering the Biodiesel without using a risen tower.
and since I have a CF I figure I should use it for something.

Danny


05 CRD and 07 Dodge 2500. Both on B100
 
Location: Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: November 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Use wood chips, don't waste time and treasure on the centrifuge, I spent hundreds of hours and several thousand dollars this past winter and spring on a large fuge system (25gpm) and have since given it up for wood chips.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by fabricator:
Use wood chips, don't waste time and treasure on the centrifuge, I spent hundreds of hours and several thousand dollars this past winter and spring on a large fuge system (25gpm) and have since given it up for wood chips.


Do you filter your oil after the wood chips?
If so, How?


Danny


05 CRD and 07 Dodge 2500. Both on B100
 
Location: Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: November 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fabricator:
Use wood chips, don't waste time and treasure on the centrifuge, I spent hundreds of hours and several thousand dollars this past winter and spring on a large fuge system (25gpm) and have since given it up for wood chips.


Can you show me an example of your wood chip setup?
Do you filter the oil after that? If so, how???


Danny


05 CRD and 07 Dodge 2500. Both on B100
 
Location: Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: November 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Are we talking about oil or bio? I run my bio through a 55 gallon drum filled with hard wood chips, it's pumped in with a little blue pump and drains out the bottom into my wash tank.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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After running the biodiesel through the wood shavings, you want to final filter. I filter mine through two - 1 micron sock filters prior to going in the fuel canisters.
 
Location: Chambodia | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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