Did I give the impression that I liked cone bottom plastic tanks ? Nope, not me, 'cept maybe for washing. I wouldn't even settle in one due to the heat transfer from the freshly transfered reaction. Wash tanks, sure, drying tanks ? With a modified heat spear (good suggestion JimD) no problem.
Some folks have successfully used poly drums as reactors.Good for them. I would not be one to go that route, but then that is me. There are just too many "if" 's as brentsbg said, and we already have enough going on to be also worried about the ^&^%! reactor melting in mid process.

quote:

Originally posted by brentsbg:
Legal,
You are fighting a battle you will never win with the people who dont like the plastic cone bottom tanks. The plastic tanks are dangerous "if"........ and that is the dangerous aspect of them...."if"

Actually most of us do not mention "if" when discussing the plastic reactors like the one you seem to think is so wonderfull . We tend to use the term "when" most of the time . Because it really is not a question of "if" it is a question of "when" . We all know the plastic tanks are not safe and the "if" question is not needed , rather "when" it will happen . You seem to like the "if" , but for the rest of us it is truly more a question of when it will fail and how badly . It has been shown several times that these tanks fittings do not expand at the proper rate when coupled to steel fittings an they almost always leak . I have a tank that is the exact same one you use on your systems and when I applied heat to use it for a wash / drying tank it leaked . This was heated with an external heat exchanger and there was no way the heater could melt the tank walls . It still leaked and in a processing situation would not have been safe . I decided to not even use it as a wash / dry tank because it had the problems with leaking when the tank warmed up faster than the steel plumbing it was connected to . You can consider this a personal attack if that is what you really want to do , but we all know that this bias is out of concern for peoples safety . When the plastic systems are heated they are not safe , when they are not heated they fail to make a quality product . In either case it makes homebrew biodiesel look bad .

Yes, it is the When Question

When the next earthquake comes on the West Coast that knocks over an Appleseed reactor full of biodiesel and the plastic methoxide mixing drum full of methoxide that spills onto the floor and is ignited by the gas fired hot water heater in the same room there will be all he## to pay.

Can someone explain why it is fine to mix methoxide in a plastic drum, Fine to use the plastic methoxide mixer drum as the methoxide dispenser into the reactor, fine to store WVO in plastic drums, fine to wash biodiesel in plastic drums, fine to dry biodiesel in plastic drums and fine to store biodiesel in plastic drums but apparently it is unacceptably risky to use a plastic reactor that does not contain a heater.
It seems to me that if there is a major fire in the room containing the plastic storage containers full of biodiesel and the plastic storage containers full of WVO and the plastic wash drums full of biodiesel and the plastic drying drums full of biodiesel and the plastic methoxide drums full of methoxide, it will not make a great deal of difference whether the reactor is metal or plastic.

Hmm , kinda smells like a baiting scheme to me . I think I might be better off to not get involved in this line of conversation . Seems lately some people only want to find something to fight about , but are nowhere to be found when a real topic like safety , or quality come up .

Hello Dodgeram

Is that a Baiting scheme or a Bating Scheme?

Hey look there it is again .Must be a slow news day in Aussie land .

But since we are on the subject of poor quality processing systems , can anyone tell me why this machine will not work ? OK , I admit there are really several answers to that one , but hey who's keeping score .


http://www.biodieselpictures.com/files/bio_newest_main_163.jpg

Hello Dodgeram



Looks like I caught another one.

Nah , but you are certainly trying pretty hard . I have been around long enough to know better than try to have a battle of the wits with an unarmed man .

But I must say that you have managed to clutter up yet another informative thread with senseless dribble . You are running at an all time high for even yourself when it comes to wasting pace on the internet lately . They have got to find something to entertain you poor folks over there . Do you not have access to watch the Super Bowl ? Surely there must be something to keep you busy ?

Hello dodgeram

Got the hook out yet?

Funny, I thought I asked a perfectly good question and then you come along looking for an argument.
I will re-post my question. If you do not have a sensible answer why not post your disruptions to the Tilly Bashing Forum?

Can someone explain why it is fine to mix methoxide in a plastic drum, Fine to use the plastic methoxide mixer drum as the methoxide dispenser into the reactor, fine to store WVO in plastic drums, fine to wash biodiesel in plastic drums, fine to dry biodiesel in plastic drums and fine to store biodiesel in plastic drums but apparently it is unacceptably risky to use a plastic reactor that does not contain a heater.
It seems to me that if there is a major fire in the room containing the plastic storage containers full of biodiesel and the plastic storage containers full of WVO and the plastic wash drums full of biodiesel and the plastic drying drums full of biodiesel and the plastic methoxide drums full of methoxide, it will not make a great deal of difference whether the reactor is metal or plastic.

quote:

Originally posted by dodgeram:
But I must say that you have managed to clutter up yet another informative thread with senseless dribble . You are running at an all time high for even yourself when it comes to wasting pace on the internet lately . They have got to find something to entertain you poor folks over there . Do you not have access to watch the Super Bowl ? Surely there must be something to keep you busy ?

Strange?

quote:

Funny, I thought I asked a perfectly good question and then you come along looking for an argument.

Imagine that, Tilly thinks someone is being argumentative!!!

Tilly,

As you have pointed out, I am not qualified to have a real oppinion on this sort of thing. So I won't bother arguing with you on the details.

One thought though... I think where people get into real trouble is that they find the temptation to attach some form of heat to those things irresistible. Even those who use them just for washing. I know a guy who does it. He also has a gas hot water heater in the same room.

I use all metal drums, except the carboys, so that is the weak link. At least the system is being watched when they are in use.

Andrew

Hello Andrew
Hmmmm, irresistible urges to attach a heater. I do not believe I have ever experienced that.

So in your unqualified sort of way you feel that as long as a person is able to control his irresistible urges to hook a heater element up, a plastic carboy containing methanol and a plastic reactor mixing the biodiesel are safe as long as they are being watched?
That seems like a good sensible thought.

quote:

Originally posted by dodgeram:
But since we are on the subject of poor quality processing systems , can anyone tell me why this machine will not work ? OK , I admit there are really several answers to that one , but hey who's keeping score .


http://www.biodieselpictures.com/files/bio_newest_main_163.jpg

SO why doesnt my processor work? You tell me.

quote:

SO why doesnt my processor work? You tell me.

Brent, when you send me some of your fuel to get GC tested, we'll all see the real answer...

I still don't think that the poly tanks as most of those we see here can get hot enough & then hold the heat long enough to react the fuel well given the directions they send out with them. Most of the ones we've listed in this thread claim only a 2 hour "reaction time" with their poly tanks. (Tilly, I'm excluding your's from this collection of poly tanks. You have time & solar energy on your side...most folks are using these in their garages in the middle of winter right now hoping to make fully converted biodiesel in under 2 hours with these things)

-Graydon

quote:

Originally posted by brentsbg:

quote:

Originally posted by dodgeram:
But since we are on the subject of poor quality processing systems , can anyone tell me why this machine will not work ? OK , I admit there are really several answers to that one , but hey who's keeping score .


http://www.biodieselpictures.com/files/bio_newest_main_163.jpg

SO why doesnt my processor work? You tell me.

Are there any test results that show there has ever been real biodiesel made in on eof your systems ? Not a separation , but real high quality ASTM spec grade fuel ? I didn't think so . The reasons your system fails to produce quality fuel have been discussed at length and you always choose to ignore the facts and argue that you are being picked on like everyone is trying to single you out . It is not really worth going into again , you already know . But you don't want to make a quality system , you want to make easy money at the expense of people who don't know any better . I am only glad that you have thus far only advertised here , and probably only built the one you are currently trying to burn your own house down with . If you were actually advertising this system somewhere it would concern me greatly .

Tilly,

Wow, even when we kind of agree, it still seems you want to twist my words...

quote:

So in your unqualified sort of way you feel that as long as a person is able to control his irresistible urges to hook a heater element up, a plastic carboy containing methanol and a plastic reactor mixing the biodiesel are safe as long as they are being watched?

Not exactly what I said.

I would agree with "Less Unsafe".

Who watches their poly processor the whole time though? Other than you, who has no external heat source?

Andrew

Actually I seem to recall Tilly having posted that he makes his biodiesel out in a field a fair distance away from any stuctures . This is really not anything close to the average homebrew operation . I know when I was miking biodiesel at home I had a whole building that was only for making fuel . I think most people are at least using thier sheds or garages , not making fuel out in a remote field somewhere .

Hello Andrew
How careless of me, that was Irresistable temptations, not iresistable Urges.
So you will agree with "Less Unsafe"?
I can not recall that being one of your previous options.
So you think that the plastic methoxide mixers and plastic methoxide dispensers used on appleseed reactors is unsafe?

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
Tilly,

Wow, even when we kind of agree, it still seems you want to twist my words...

quote:

So in your unqualified sort of way you feel that as long as a person is able to control his irresistible urges to hook a heater element up, a plastic carboy containing methanol and a plastic reactor mixing the biodiesel are safe as long as they are being watched?

Not exactly what I said.

I would agree with "Less Unsafe".

Who watches their poly processor the whole time though? Other than you, who has no external heat source?

Andrew

"Imagine that, Tilly thinks someone is being argumentative!!!

Tilly,

As you have pointed out, I am not qualified to have a real oppinion on this sort of thing. So I won't bother arguing with you on the details.

One thought though... I think where people get into real trouble is that they find the temptation to attach some form of heat to those things irresistible. Even those who use them just for washing. I know a guy who does it. He also has a gas hot water heater in the same room.

I use all metal drums, except the carboys, so that is the weak link. At least the system is being watched when they are in use.

Andrew"

Tilly's question is only loaded because it clearly states that the reactor does not have heat applied to it, and THAT is the hick.
WE are talking about applying heat to a plastic reactor therefore there is no question set affoot. There is a bit of misdirection, but no pertinent question as to the subject matter at hand.
Only a fool stores large quantities of methanol in the same room as a heat source for processing, and mixing methanol in plastic is a non starter, no heat is present, nor will there be.
This entire discussion is centered on the application of heat to the plastic. Where no heat is there is no expansion and no leakage therefore no safety hazzard potential.
I suppose that is why most of the pics we see of the Plastic Reactors come with plastic fittings eh? They are not just being cheap, it is actually safer than metal pipes due to the expansion factor,the plpastic fittings expanding more easily than it's metalic counterparts. Of course none of the other factors, such as drying of the fittings and eventual cracking, are not adressed, but by then they've made off with a profit line and it is no longer their problem. IMO.
The original question:
"Can someone explain why it is fine to mix methoxide in a plastic drum, Fine to use the plastic methoxide mixer drum as the methoxide dispenser into the reactor, fine to store WVO in plastic drums, fine to wash biodiesel in plastic drums, fine to dry biodiesel in plastic drums and fine to store biodiesel in plastic drums but apparently it is unacceptably risky to use a plastic reactor that does not contain a heater." (colour is mine).

Dodgeram;
The answer to your visual is: where's the pump ?
It's always in the details, those pesky details.