Legal,

Good point, I'll drop the HV8 downpipe into a T on the pump inlet line.

Jon, the 2nd pipe hole I drilled up top is a few inches away from the apex of the concave dome. I wonder how much more methanol I will get by drilling closer to it. I understand the logic behind the recovery hole being at the topmost position, but for now, I'm going to go with what I have. If my methanol distillation returns suck, I'll drill another hole.

Also, great tip on the heat tape. I'll try to find some too. And you insulated the pipe as well?

Paulus: I am using the Harbor Freight blue water pump. I've read over and over that the pump is not self-priming, so you need to have it level if not lower than your drain. Is that not true? I'm not understanding why/how I can have the pump higher than the HV2 drain if my pump is not self-priming. So that is why in my drawing, I have it lower than the cross that connects HV1, 2, and 3B.

About the sight tube and funnel, that's the way GL had it, so I just copied it. Both of your logic make sense. Why I put it off to the side was to keep the number of valves down on the pump side. I'll draw it in this next version so I can see what it looks like. But yes, your logic makes sense and I wasn't so initially concerned about losing that small amount of oil after I drained the whole tank.

Brian (Weldshop): I didn't consider removing the bottom and rewelding it as a convex top because I had such a bear of a time w/ my satellite dish settling/dewatering tank. I had so many pin holes and I wasted a lot of time filling them up. I ended up using Permatex high temp sealant (black tube) to seal the entire welded area. I believe you are a professional welder---I am not

Software: I am using Photoshop 7.0, an old version. These drawings take some time, by no means am I just whipping the modifications above in just a 1/2 hour! While I am doing these drawings for my own benefit, I hope that someone in the future learns from the professional design gauntlet I am going through because quite frankly, I am learning a ton from the advice in this thread and great little tips (like heating the methanol recovery pipe) have come out that I dont think I've found by reading other threads

Revised drawing coming shortly...

Hi Bob

When you can fill and drain the sight tube at will, you will do so with glee, feeling both powerful and clever all at once.

Plus if the sight tube is calibrated you will be able to measure not only the volume of oil you fed in, but also the methanol/alkali misture you added. And then when you drain the glycerol you will be able to measure how much biodiesel you got, WITHOUT having unreacted WVO mix back into your reacted product.

The pump is not self priming in the sense that if the pump inlet is above the level of the oil in the processor the pump cannot suck it further up if not primed, ie it will not suck air.

But so long as the pump inlet is placed at the level of the four-way tee, any oil in the tee will also flow into and past the pump, thus priming it. The oil in the pump outlet pipe will reach the same height as in the processor.

You take take advantage of this by contriving to have the pump inlet pipe slope gently back to the tee for draining purposes. Glycerol that settles in the pump outlet pipe should, unless I am mistaken, drain back down through the pump and gather at the four-way tee ready for draining. Even if the glycerol has standing bio above it, it will run downhill as if there was nothing else there.

Ok, I think this is it. Man, there sure is a lot going on between the drain HV2 and the pump!


What size vapor lines is everyone using? I saw so many different sizes of polyethylene at Lowes, its hard to decide.

Also, those two vent/vapor pipes up top are 1/2". Does it make a difference that they are smaller than the rest of the 3/4" pipes?

edit: now up to 2.2

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bob_98SR5,

quote:

Also, great tip on the heat tape. I'll try to find some too. And you insulated the pipe as well?

Yes I had it wrapped in fiberglass insulation. I have since read some wise warnings/horror stories about fibrous insulation acting like a wick if it gets soaked with WVO or bio and it gets ignited so be aware!
I used a water heater T-stat to regulate the temp but even without the stat the tape self regulates at 210F. I am not sure if that much heat is required its just that's what I started with and it worked...
Jon

Jon,

Oh I didn't mean fiberglass insulation, but instead, that foam kind that is split lengthwise and wraps around the pipe. But good to know that the fiberglass batting stuff could ignite.

Ok gents, version 2.2 is up. Any more advice before I start the build? I'll be documenting it with pics. I have alot of pics already from the water heater tear down and welding.


Bob

Hey Bob,

You and i have very similar setups - I also use a Mazzei venturi.

what were you thinking for pump/venturi models?

I use a Grundfos 26-99 and a Mazzei 1078-2 in kynar for my pump/venturi setup. I have a 60 gallon air tank and 35 gallon batches. I pass 3-27 after 90 minutes with 22% methanol easily. I could probably pass in less time.

Also, the mazzei venturi needs some pipe after it (presumably) inside the tank, with a slight restriction, to guarantee full suction. I have 12" of pipe inside the tank with a 90 degree bend.

Mike

PS This is the same Mike you helped walk through restoring the floor on my benz.

Is this the same Mike who bought that little chuck off the rear of the rocker panel and welded it in? If yes, how did it turn out?

Yeah, my diagram is missing specs (slaps head). It's a 40 gal electric water heater. I'm using a HF Blue pump. I bought the Mazzei venturi from B100supply.

About the pipe running into the tank, thats one of my problems that we worked through in this thread. My top most port was the true bottom drain valve. But if I tried to run a 12" pipe after the venturi (as GL says in his writeup), it would hit the concave dome about 3" or so going in. So the fellas here said its ok to run it on top as you see in my version 2.2. I hope it works b/c I wanted to start this project LAST YEAR! But you know the story of my Benz (which is running quite nicely, thank you very much).

Do you have some pics of your processor?

Have you thought of using the lower (now the upper) heater element hole, Making a flange to fit, weld in a niple fit an elbow (with aproperate length pipe) and then fit a eductor pointing downwards to aid in mixing this would stop any worry of oil getting out the vent. This may save making and welding one of the penertrations in the dished end.
Regards Dom
We cant change the winds, but we can reset our sails.

Forgot to add, if you have the processor vented you do not need the pressure relief valve. (another orifice you dont need).

We cant change the winds but we can reset our sails.

Sorry guys
Putting this all together. If you can fit an eductor in through the obsolite element hole, and you dont need the pressure relief valve currently in the highest manufactured opening, you can then use this as your vent and not have to drill any holes in the concave at all. Life should be easy, how come it isnt?
Regards Dom

We cant change the winds, but we can reset our sails.

Bob;
Piped the way it is now you can use the HV9 as a system drain once the thing has done what it is nneds to do. Draining from here will empty out the lines of any residuals keeping any glycerine from hardening and plugging things up.

Check out the attachment; it is a custom bushing made by Joe_M using an old heater element screw. What it does is screw into the heater element port as it is perfectly made for it, but the benefit is that it also accomodates NPT fittings on BOTH sides, meaning that anything that can be passed through the element port can be installed in minutes using this handy bushing that is threaded on the inlet as well as the outlet sides.You want to run an eductor and use this port as the return? Have at it; as long as you can get whatever you have to fit through the element port hole you can easily install it.

joebushing2.jpeg (2 KB, 49 downloads) Heater Element Port Bushing

is an eductor absolutely necessary? and if i put it in the now top element hole, that will limit the amount of my batch size, which has been the reason for running it higher at the old drain.

the return pipe is 3/4" throughout until after the venturi, and then the welded pipe is 1/2". that should cause some backpressure (right?) and will constrict the flow and shoot straight down.

Bob,

As your finding out, there are about a million ways to build a processor. Most work just fine, particularly with 120 Liter or less batch sizes. Processor design is the art of compromise. Mostly cost/labor/safety/quality are the things being compromised. Since you haven't stated your priorities for the design, I've been commenting on specific issues in the design that will give you a problem, leaving everything else to you.

The gl design can be easily adapted to a water heater once you identify the three obstacles that have to be overcome. 1) you need a good clean decant. 2) you need a venturi to drive the air circulation through the condenser. 3) You need to regulate the temperature at two settings.

Graham has addressed each of these with answers that work well in the UK. His answers don't work so smoothly in the US.

The best answers for these issues in the US have not been standardized in any way. However you have already addressed two of the three in your design. An Appleturnover will give you an improved decant, and you have already purchased a venturi that will do the job of air circulation. As of today, the most available method of temperature control is to use a thermocouple and PID.

So, bottom line? Whatever you do will work OK as long as you avoid the worst of the pitfalls like drawing from a standpipe for mixing, and have the right back pressure on the venturi. Just build it. If it has a problem in the design, it can be either reworked or adjusted for in your recipe.

quote:

Man, there sure is a lot going on between the drain HV2 and the pump!

There sure is, and I found it necessary to weld up a manifold rather than use plumbing fittings which just wouldn't fit in the available space.

http://i121.photobucket.com/al...biscuit/manifold.jpg and http://i121.photobucket.com/al.../Pumpandmanifold.jpg

quote:

Originally posted by Bob_98SR5:
Is this the same Mike who bought that little chuck off the rear of the rocker panel and welded it in? If yes, how did it turn out?

Yeah, my diagram is missing specs (slaps head). It's a 40 gal electric water heater. I'm using a HF Blue pump. I bought the Mazzei venturi from B100supply.

About the pipe running into the tank, thats one of my problems that we worked through in this thread. My top most port was the true bottom drain valve. But if I tried to run a 12" pipe after the venturi (as GL says in his writeup), it would hit the concave dome about 3" or so going in. So the fellas here said its ok to run it on top as you see in my version 2.2. I hope it works b/c I wanted to start this project LAST YEAR! But you know the story of my Benz (which is running quite nicely, thank you very much).

Do you have some pics of your processor?

Bob,

Same Mike. It turned out great. Put thousands of miles on it so far, and love using the welder. Thank you for pushing me in that direction, to do it once and right. I wish I had my MIG setup before taking on my GL processor project.

I considered using an Apple turnover, I went with the air tank because I:

1.) wanted a bigger batch capacity
2.) had a local source for the air tank for $300
3.) wanted to fabricate exactly what i wanted with no compromises
4.) wanted the safety of a pressure vessel (the heater also qualifies for this)
5.) I figured the tank would serve as a better platform for when I wanted to make mods

My implementation of the GL was first pioneered by forum member tgomes and I used many/most of his ideas.

Ill resize some pics and post them.

Mike

An eductor operates below the level of the oil so you can still fill past the port, as the eductor sucks in oil from its suroundings and mixes it with the pump discharge it may even give you a little more capacity.
Dom
We cant change the winds, but you acn reset our sails.

Since you can weld on fittings you should seriously consider a float switch for your heater to prevent an unwanted explosion. Murphy has plans for one here.
Jon

Eductor does sound like a neat addition, but at this point, I'm going to go with what I have designed now. I'll also consider the float switch too, but only after I do more homework on the electrical stuff.

I am going to do roughly put it together over the next few days to see what other pipe sizes I need as well as drawing out the wood base for this.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I really appreciate the time you guys put into your comments/advice

quote:

but only after I do more homework on the electrical stuff

If ya have any questions just ask! I can whip up a barely legible drawing in no time if you tell me what your plans are.
See here for an example of a drawing I did for Drewrys push/pull...
Jon

Hi Berny,

I sent you a PM. Would you mind checking it?

Bob