From the sounds of it a centrifuge would sure be a nice addition. I started looking into them (I fully understand the physics) but realized I don't know anything about them.

Can you guys share some knowledge and/or experence? Any good links to read etc.

Thanks,

There are several fantastic write-ups on this board about them, and how to implement them with WVO or Biodiesel. I don't have the links, but an advanced search for "centrifuge" in the title would probably get you there. A couple brand-names you can search on are DieselCraft and Spinner II, plus a few others either found regularly on ebay or ones that you can build yourself with the plans found on here.

Basics are that you need (in this order of flow) an oil container with your oil to be filtered, a heater to get the oil up to 130-180F (different people recommend different temps...I think 150 is the 'norm' recommended), a pump capable of doing 1-2 gpm @ 80-100psi (this is usually attached to a motor that has a 1750rpm spin capability and is connected to the pump via direct shaft or wheels/belt), a pressure relief valve set at 100psi or so, a flow-by with a ball-valve for pressure regulation on one side and the centrifuge on the other(those usually used by the people on the boards either do ~1gpm or ~2gmp) The CF often empties back into the oil container. Some people set it up so that they can stop the CF without the liquid currently in it falling back into the oil, which can help for dewatering.

That's about it. From what I've heard, most people run it for 2-4 cycles on WVO prior to processing -- I have no clue how long people run it on post-processed biodiesel.

My description is probably a tad off...much better to go check out the long threads that go into much better detail.

Hope that helps.
-Scott

Hi Fisher.

The centrifuge Bible here is :

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/2001011761/p/1

P.S. I called you today. I hope you got my message.

quote:

Originally posted by welder:
Hi Fisher.

The centrifuge Bible here is :

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/2001011761/p/1

P.S. I called you today. I hope you got my message.

Thanks for the link!

Just got the message. was out of town. We'll connect this week.

Hey don't forget check out the " simple centifudge "


It works with a electric motor spinning a bowl you feed oil in via gravity then out to you storage container. I have filtered about 3000 liters with mine she works great!


The amount of sediment I pull from the oil is defintly eye opening, seeing how small the diesel craft centrifuge is I would think you'd be opening it up all the time to clean it.


I usually filter 100 gallons then stop the centrifuge to clean about a 5min task, some rubber gloves and a scoop.....lol

I will usually get about 4 cups of crap, I do a single pass. I have pumped about 250 gallons of BD through a 10 micron filter after processing and not showing any signs of clogging.


Either way you go you'll love it, never have to buy a filter again!

do you have a link to the "simple cent." ? or should i just do a search for it here on the forums?

quote:

Originally posted by ESPMR2Mike:
do you have a link to the "simple cent." ? or should i just do a search for it here on the forums?

I second that request. The Centrifuge discussion is 145 pages!

Thanks!

- JC

quote:

Originally posted by JCBiodiesel:

quote:

Originally posted by ESPMR2Mike:
do you have a link to the "simple cent." ? or should i just do a search for it here on the forums?

I second that request. The Centrifuge discussion is 145 pages!

Thanks!

- JC

Google search for "simple centrifuge"
Note the first links...

quote:

Originally posted by ebztz:
Google search for "simple centrifuge"
Note the first links...

Thanks for the link. I've seen that one and read all over their site some time ago. The bowl seems really expensive for me, which is why I was looking at centrifuge info.

I have an idea, but didn't want to reinvent the wheel. So far I haven't seen anyone do what I'm thinking about, will probably have to do some testing...

Thanks!

- JC

quote:

Originally posted by JCBiodiesel:

quote:

Originally posted by ebztz:
Google search for "simple centrifuge"
Note the first links...

Thanks for the link. I've seen that one and read all over their site some time ago. The bowl seems really expensive for me, which is why I was looking at centrifuge info.

I have an idea, but didn't want to reinvent the wheel. So far I haven't seen anyone do what I'm thinking about, will probably have to do some testing...

Thanks!

- JC

The bowl is a bit pricey, but economical considering the rest of the unit can be built cheaply. Fuelfarmer has basic housing that looks inexpensive and practical. The total price for motor, housing, and bowl, is less than that of a engine-oil centrifuge and gear pump and will require less cleaning (HUGE sediment trap size difference).

I put together a CF using a Simple Centrifuge bowl. Bowls are not impossible to make, but it is not easy unless you have the skill.
I like the idea of a single pass set up instead of pump clean oil back into the dirty oil and hoping over time that all the oil will go through the CF. I am sure both systems work.
I wish the bowl would be taller to increase the retention time and to help contain the fluid that splashes as it tries to merge with the wall of fast moving fluid.

I don't know how to do a "click here" link. hope this works.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/15960555...421057602#2421057602

FuelFarmer,

I agree with the "retention time," but let's call it "separating pressure over time."

Longer retention can help, but so can increased pressure (G-forces, not PSI )

How to increase pressure? Several ways that include larger diameter bowl, faster speed, (both difficult due to balancing and wear issues), but there is another option.

I've been thinking that an inside wall that was sloped inwards in a rounded fashion would be more effective.

Think of a cross-section being a dome with the middle removed, instead of the straight walls. The inner section would look like a short bundt cake that would give more "depth" by extending the top cover.

This would have the effect of forcing heavier particles outward AND DOWNWARD, with the heaviest being pushed the farthest down.

Clean oil would still have to travel up a wall against gravity, but ALSO would have to traverse a larger distance towards the middle to go over the top.

An additional benefit would be the increased force applied to the clean oil as it slaps against the outer section.

This design *should* permit even better separation without increasing the critial stresses or significantly reducing the entrapment containment volume.

Alternatively, it is perceivable that with this newer design, rpms could be reduced with the same net results (that would require further testing), allowing for less expensive components.

At least that was my thought...

- JC

quote:

Originally posted by JCBiodiesel:
FuelFarmer,

I agree with the "retention time," but let's call it "separating pressure over time."

Longer retention can help, but so can increased pressure (G-forces, not PSI )

How to increase pressure? Several ways that include larger diameter bowl, faster speed, (both difficult due to balancing and wear issues), but there is another option.

I've been thinking that an inside wall that was sloped inwards in a rounded fashion would be more effective.

Think of a cross-section being a dome with the middle removed, instead of the straight walls. The inner section would look like a short bundt cake that would give more "depth" by extending the top cover.

This would have the effect of forcing heavier particles outward AND DOWNWARD, with the heaviest being pushed the farthest down.

Clean oil would still have to travel up a wall against gravity, but ALSO would have to traverse a larger distance towards the middle to go over the top.

An additional benefit would be the increased force applied to the clean oil as it slaps against the outer section.

This design *should* permit even better separation without increasing the critial stresses or significantly reducing the entrapment containment volume.

Alternatively, it is perceivable that with this newer design, rpms could be reduced with the same net results (that would require further testing), allowing for less expensive components.

At least that was my thought...

- JC

If you look at the professional (expensive ^^$$$, high-RPM) centrifuges, they have internal vanes and oddly shaped center cones. They're also able to inject oil near the bottom, outer wall. This increases bowl residence time. Link. Download and look over the PDF there too.

Erik,

That'd be cool, thanks.

It seems to me that a series of ridges on the inner surface of the inside bowl area (like a rough diamond plate) could create additional "pseudo reaction sites" (using an analogy to a chemical reaction) that could help break the physical (not chemical) bonds in the suspension or colloid to facilitate separation of the materials.

I can understand how vanes could be added to material-specific devices that would cause the suspension to "climb over" a vane, then "smash" back down and assist in separation.

This is probably elementary to centrifuge engineers, but this is my first delving into this area. Sure, seen them, read about some of them, was curious, but didn't actually think it out til recently...

- JC

quote:

Originally posted by JCBiodiesel:
Erik,

That'd be cool, thanks.

It seems to me that a series of ridges on the inner surface of the inside bowl area (like a rough diamond plate) could create additional "pseudo reaction sites" (using an analogy to a chemical reaction) that could help break the physical (not chemical) bonds in the suspension or colloid to facilitate separation of the materials.

I can understand how vanes could be added to material-specific devices that would cause the suspension to "climb over" a vane, then "smash" back down and assist in separation.

The vanes keep the material from rotating within the bowl, thereby increasing the rotational velocity of all the material. This increases the effective outward force, promoting separation.

"The vanes keep the material from rotating within the bowl, thereby increasing the rotational velocity of all the material. This increases the effective outward force, promoting separation"

Yes. The vane would have to be tapered on the leading edge and straight on the back edge to get the effect I mentioned. Sort of like a multi-stage filter of sorts, progressively separating as it runs...

- JC

quote:

Originally posted by JCBiodiesel:
"The vanes keep the material from rotating within the bowl, thereby increasing the rotational velocity of all the material. This increases the effective outward force, promoting separation"

Yes. The vane would have to be tapered on the leading edge and straight on the back edge to get the effect I mentioned. Sort of like a multi-stage filter of sorts, progressively separating as it runs...

- JC

If you look at the link two posts up, you can see the internal workings. There doesn't appear to be a "ramp," as such.

quote:

If you look at the link two posts up, you can see the internal workings. There doesn't appear to be a "ramp," as such.

Correct, I didn't mean in the current design. Sorry for the confusion.

- JC

Fuelfarmer, do you have a diagram of the splashguard?...little hard to see in the video. Great setup, doesn't seem to take up much space.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulus:
Fuelfarmer, do you have a diagram of the splashguard?...little hard to see in the video. Great setup, doesn't seem to take up much space.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/15960555...421057602#2421057602

The above link has photos. If you scroll down far enough you can see the splash guard out of the bowl. In the photo of the CF running with out the guard, you can see drops of oil under the lid. That is what got me to thinking of a way to stop the few drop from splashing out of the bowl.
I could put photos in this thread if that would help.