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I am finally building my processor. Yay! I have almost all of the plumbing fitted and I filled it with water to start testing. And to my horror, I have a couple drips. One of them is at the very start of my iron pipe octopus. So it looks like I have to disassemble almost all of the pipes, valves, and fittings to redo them.

I thought I had this figured out. I am using one inch teflon tape, which covers the 3/4 inch pipe ends in one pass. I give the tape two full wraps. I tighten the pipes and connectors to very snug, but not "scary tight". Some of the pipes are old, but I cleaned the threads with a wire wheel until the rust was gone and the threads clean. Could "rust worn" threads be a problem? Do I need freshly cut threads?

On some of the valves and fittings, I varied the tightness a bit to get the orientation right. By feel, I can tell that a part is probably not going to go another half turn.

I have a lot of connections in this thing, and I hope that I can get each and every one of them sealed properly. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks!
 
Location: Wyoming, US | Registered: November 03, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What size piping?
When it feels like you wont be able to get another turn is when you are almost tight, you need to get that extra turn in. If you cant your pipe wrenches are undersized. When your getting in that last turn its important to be smooth, dont use jerky actions when cranking them.
Be very careful that you do it right the first time, if you find you need to back a fitting off, even a curly one, your in trouble as it will leak there. You can assemble the stuff dry and mark out where the fitting need to be with a sharpie, then dope it and tighten to the marks.
A trick told to me by Biotom on here is to use some of that high quality 25 year polyurethane caulking for pipe dope. I used it on my tank flanges and still no leaks after a number of years, I only wish I had used it on all my pipe joints...
Good luck!
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi r hodges,

quote:
Originally posted by r_hodges:
I thought I had this figured out. I am using one inch teflon tape, which covers the 3/4 inch pipe ends in one pass. I give the tape two full wraps.
When working with iron threaded pipe I usually try to get about 4- 5 turns in or perhaps a bit more.



quote:
I tighten the pipes and connectors to very snug, but not "scary tight".
I tighten until pretty much as tight as I can get it.

You do not want it to leak!






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Jon,

My dad used the thick top layer from an old tin of oil based paint to make his pipe dope.

being a new age sort of guy, I use teflon tape- lots of teflon tape per joint- the more the better.
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Heron:
A trick told to me by Biotom on here is to use some of that high quality 25 year polyurethane caulking for pipe dope.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by r_hodges:
I thought I had this figured out. I am using one inch teflon tape, which covers the 3/4 inch pipe ends in one pass. I give the tape two full wraps.


Two full wraps is not always enough.. Three minimum. It also depends on where you got your teflon tape at.. The stuff that harbor freight sells is absolute garbage as I'm not even sure if 10 wraps would work.
If you're using a quality tape then three wraps is standard.

quote:

I tighten the pipes and connectors to very snug, but not "scary tight". Some of the pipes are old, but I cleaned the threads with a wire wheel until the rust was gone and the threads clean. Could "rust worn" threads be a problem? Do I need freshly cut threads?


You might want to consider going to a standard pipe dope paste in this case..


quote:

On some of the valves and fittings, I varied the tightness a bit to get the orientation right. By feel, I can tell that a part is probably not going to go another half turn.

I have a lot of connections in this thing, and I hope that I can get each and every one of them sealed properly. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks!

Generally speaking, threads should seal up fairly easily.. if you're having an issue it could be any of several things.. An out-of-round fitting, dirt, broken threads, improper application of sealant tape or paste, etc.


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Heron:
What size piping?

It is all 3/4 inch. I figured that would be fine for the little black pump, especially since the main circuit goes through a venturi with a 0.18" orifice. That, by the way, is the only plastic in the main plumbing, and I put ball valves on both sides in case something bad happened.
quote:

When it feels like you wont be able to get another turn is when you are almost tight, you need to get that extra turn in. If you cant your pipe wrenches are undersized.

So that implies that I won't have very good control over the orientation of the valves, and I may have to just deal with whatever directions the ells and tees end up pointing to? Argh.
quote:

A trick told to me by Biotom on here is to use some of that high quality 25 year polyurethane caulking for pipe dope. I used it on my tank flanges and still no leaks after a number of years, I only wish I had used it on all my pipe joints...

I have a couple brands of silicone and some latex-silicone, but I don't think I have seen polyurethane. Is this sold in the same section?

@Tilly:
Eight wraps of teflon? I thought I read that more than two won't help. But if I can't get it leak free with two, I will probably give it a try!

Thanks, all!
 
Location: Wyoming, US | Registered: November 03, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
I tighten until pretty much as tight as I can get it.


That is a bad practice and would be bad advice to give someone.


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Murphy:
Two full wraps is not always enough.. Three minimum. It also depends on where you got your teflon tape at.. The stuff that harbor freight sells is absolute garbage as I'm not even sure if 10 wraps would work.
If you're using a quality tape then three wraps is standard.

This is what I am using:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005QE85NY#

Okay, new plan is to use at least three wraps!

@Tilly:
Huh... I thought you wrote eight wraps. Sorry about misquoting you.

Thanks!
 
Location: Wyoming, US | Registered: November 03, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by r_hodges:
So that implies that I won't have very good control over the orientation of the valves, and I may have to just deal with whatever directions the ells and tees end up pointing to? Argh.

No, you will have control, you just need some umph and the proper sized wrenches. IMO for 3/4" iron you should be using minimum 18" pipe wrenches and you need 2 of them. Te length of the wrench is directly proportional to how tight the joint feels.
quote:

I have a couple brands of silicone and some latex-silicone, but I don't think I have seen polyurethane. Is this sold in the same section?

No those are no good, this is what I used: http://www.homedepot.ca/produc...56877-1000417168||||

There is a common misconception that the purpose of teflon tape and/or pipe dope is to seal the joints, when in fact the purpose is to lubricate the threads to ensure proper engagement and tightness.
My fitting skills where all taught to me by an ancient grizzled plumber named Guy Lavicteaur who didn't know what leak meant. Big Grin
Good luck!
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi r hodges,

quote:
Originally posted by r_hodges:

@Tilly:
Huh... I thought you wrote eight wraps. Sorry about misquoting you.

Thanks!
Not a misquote, I originally wrote 8 wraps but at the moment I am doing some plumbing and noted that 4 or 5 wraps seemed to do the trick. That was with plastic into bronze.

I will be doing cheap Chinese steel fittings into cheap Chinese water pump in the next hour or so and I will tell you what they took.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Murphy,

quote:
Originally posted by Murphy:
That is a bad practice and would be bad advice to give someone.
Just curious how you know how tight I can get things. It works for me most of the time although occasionally I do need to go a bit tighter.

Just as well it was not given as advice then.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Jon,
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Heron:
There is a common misconception that the purpose of teflon tape and/or pipe dope is to seal the joints, when in fact the purpose is to lubricate the threads to ensure proper engagement and tightness.
Jon

According to Wiki and almost every other site I have checked, they do both.

"Thread seal tape lubricates allowing for a deeper seating of the threads, and it helps prevent the threads from seizing when being unscrewed.
The tape also works as a deformable filler, helping to seal the joint without hardening or making it more difficult to tighten,[3] and instead making it easier to tighten"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_seal_tape






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
Hi Jon,
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Heron:
There is a common misconception that the purpose of teflon tape and/or pipe dope is to seal the joints, when in fact the purpose is to lubricate the threads to ensure proper engagement and tightness.
Jon

According to Wiki and almost every other site I have checked, they do both.

"Thread seal tape lubricates allowing for a deeper seating of the threads, and it helps prevent the threads from seizing when being unscrewed.
The tape also works as a deformable filler, helping to seal the joint without hardening or making it more difficult to tighten,[3] and instead making it easier to tighten"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_seal_tape


Yup.. Tilly has that one correct..

The fact that teflon tape is only there to lubricate is also a misconception. It is also there to form a seal..


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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An old plumber wrote on this forum some years back that good pipe threads seal themselves, pipe dope is used as a lubricant. I use urethane caulk found in the same section of the hardware store as latex or silicone. Neither of those will provide a leak proof joint for long. For me Teflon tape was no better, the joints end up leaking in time. urethane caulk has never let me down, it allows you to tighten the joints to where you want them, no need to over do it.
When you are putting together a pipe octopus it is good to add some unions so adjustments can be made if required without dismantling the whole thing.


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The professionals do not use teflon tape, they use 'pipe dope'. ie.

Permatex® Pipe Joint Compound
Universal sealant. Lubricates and seals threaded joints on water, oil and fuel lines. Temperature range -65°F to 400°F (-54°C to 204°C); resists common shop fluids.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Biotom:
I use urethane caulk found in the same section of the hardware store as latex or silicone. Neither of those will provide a leak proof joint for long.

Would any name brand be okay, or should it be DAP? I see Menards has Loctite brand polyurethane sealers and these claim metal as one of the recommended surfaces:

Loctite PL S30 Roof & Flashing Sealant
http://www.menards.com/main/pa...p-1860356-c-7934.htm

Loctite PL S40 Window, Door, & Siding Sealant
http://www.menards.com/main/pa...p-1860357-c-7934.htm

I take it that the polyurethane sealers are compatible with the various chemicals we use? I imagine that the contact are would be very tiny.

Thanks!
 
Location: Wyoming, US | Registered: November 03, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yep either of those will work.
The stuff I used had the same use case as the S40 in your add and had a 50 year guarantee.
Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi John,

quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
The professionals do not use teflon tape, they use 'pipe dope'
Except the ones who use teflon tape and then they use teflon tape. Wink


Well I got my metal to metal threading done and used 4- 5 turns of tape on it. It was a pretty tight fit.
I find it amazing that the iron Galvanized fittings made in china cost about half the price of plastic fittings.

I am in the process of "comissioning" the pool for another summer.
If you do not have a pool you do not want one.

I have a solar heater I made about 15- 20 years ago on top of the garage and I am installing a smaller water pump to run it so that I do not have to leave the big pump run all day and chewing through all that electricity.

As per usual I am trying to bodgy something together from bits and pieces I have on hand to save a few bucks. It sure wastes a lot of time.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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A quick update,

quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
I have a solar heater I made about 15- 20 years ago on top of the garage and I am installing a smaller water pump to run it so that I do not have to leave the big pump run all day and chewing through all that electricity.

As per usual I am trying to bodgy something together from bits and pieces I have on hand to save a few bucks. It sure wastes a lot of time.
I finally got the solar heater working.
The initial output was 53C but that soon cooled down.
I will run it on sunny days for the next month or two and by that time, if there is not much rain the temp will be up to where I do not need to run it.

I remember one Christmas the pool was so warm that it was like swimming in a warm bath.
Now I monitor the temperature more closely.

A half hours rain will undo a weeks worth of solar heating.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
If you do not have a pool you do not want one.

Wise words!
I rented a house when I was a kid that had a large pool, the amount of work that I put into that thing was incredible... Between winterizing, opening, vacuuming, covering, fiddling with chemicals, etc, etc.. I swore I would never own another one.
My place now has a large pond, I have bubblers that I start up in the spring to aerate it and feed the bactepure that I pour in a couple times of year and thats about it. Great for swimming in the summer and skating in the winter. My kids love fishing for the sunfish that live in it too... Much better.
Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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