BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel Equipment    GL Push-Pull processor
Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 26

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
GL Push-Pull processor
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Can you sketch a drawing of what you have in mind?


I've been trying to sketch it out for you, but I couldn't. I'll have to get back to you on that one... Sorry.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
OK, it looks like a sketch is not going to happen. Let's see if I can describe it to you before I set my computer on fire... Mad

Do you see the point in which V1, V3 and V4 connect to the pipe that goes to V5 and V6?
My idea is to only connect V1, V4 and V5 together with a "T", and to connect the side of V3 that'd be connected to V1 and V4, directly to the tank, eliminating V6. That way, for demething (the only process in which the flow is reversed) you only have to open V3 and V7.
I hope that could help. I'm sorry I couldn't make a drawing.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi bernyjb

Gotcha! Do you mean like this?

Was... Now...


Not only does it save a valve, it eliminates a cross-piece - I hate crosspieces!

Thanks very much for a great suggestion!

We can also eliminate an elbow if we move V7 and V8 down near V9, and can eliminate another elbow if we move the heater vent tube a little to the right. I have made those changes to this picture.

Any other economies I've missed?


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Gotcha! Do you mean like this?


Exactly! I was worried you wouldn't be able to understand me. My English is still limited.

quote:
Not only does it save a valve, it eliminates a cross-piece - I hate crosspieces!


Yep. That makes two of us... Big Grin

quote:
Thanks very much for a great suggestion!


You're very welcome. Glad I could be of help.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi Graham

During methanol removal....

... why not do away with all the pipework, pump and valves and simply provide an air bleed at the bottom of the processor? The system is under negative pressure due to the vacuum pump so you don't need to pump air in. The entrained air in the processor will provide mixing and will pick up vapour on it's way up? I guess you'd need a decent pump/venturi though - don't think the Grundfos would be up to it.....

oh, and you'd need to revert to the element in the tank....

Nick


Free collection of waste cooking oil in the Nottingahm area http://wastevegoil.co.uk
 
Location: Nottingham UK | Registered: December 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi Nick

There are a few problems with adding air to the system, and I've tried to avoid those problems with this design.

1. If air goes, in, air must come out, and because the condenser is only cooled to around 20C, the air will blow out a lot of methanol from the vent.

By keeping the air to a miniumum, the dewpoint will be approaching 65C, and the volume of gas passing into the condenser will be low, so condensation will be efficient and there will be very little methanol escaping the vent.

2. Having the process air-free should help reduce polymerisation / oxidation.

3. By having the main heater on ONLY during times the vacuum pump is operating, the ratio of methanol vapour to air should be far too high to allow combustion to occur. So we have a double improvement by running in an oxygen starved environment and with a wet-sump heater tube which can't expose the element to air.

Hope that helps explain it.

Cheers

Graham


Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Bicycle on G100 12,000 miles p.a. ( http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/GrahamLaming )
 
Location: UK | Registered: December 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
sorry to be a bugger as this is a pretty petty question.

As far as using an indicator, many of us use tumeric as an indicator instead of phenol or phenolphthaline. Both of the latter are clear before their pH trigger, and pink after.... tumeric is bright yellow before and brick red after.

I guess my question is whether or not this even matters? or does the indicator color go away?
 
Registered: April 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Graham, in your new 'animated' diagram on your website, On stage 2, you are filling the tank at V6. Is there reason not just use V5? More importantly I think with your new valve arrangement, I think you MUST fill with V5.

Does this seem correct?

Thanks for all your hard work.
Doug
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Will an Air compressor tank be sufficient to withstand the vacuum created?


They're rated at 200 PSI, so they should be quite comfortable. Let's say you pull 31 in. Hg., that's about 1 atm., (14.7 PSI), so a tank rated at 200 shouldn't even feel it. I really like the ones at compressor world.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Graham, in your new 'animated' diagram on your website, On stage 2, you are filling the tank at V6. Is there reason not just use V5? More importantly I think with your new valve arrangement, I think you MUST fill with V5.

Does this seem correct?


Look at page 1 in this same thread. Smile


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Oops! Sorry, mi bad. Yes, to fill up with the new arrangement you should use V5 to fill up, since V6 no longer exists and V3 is directly connected to the pump's inlet. With the normal arrangement, you could use either V5 or V6.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Hello Graham,

I was just about to build a GL1 and I saw your new design. One big question before I modify my build to try this setup instead. Have you built one yet and have you tested any Biodiesel from it? Or is this design more a work in progress and perhaps I should go with the the GL1 till more is known about the New Push/Pull.

Thanks
Doug
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
They're rated at 200 PSI, so they should be quite comfortable


Hmmm I'm sure you are right with the pressures involved but in principle a tank that can stand internal pressure cannot be relied on to withstand vacuum; particularly large tanks.

The liquid in a tank does provide hydraulic bracing so if you are only drawing your vacuum on a small head space you are more likely to be ok.

Not sure how well surrounding a tank with concrete, as suggested above, will protect it.

Excluding the external air pressure from most of the surface, which is what crushes a tank with a vacuum in it, is a good idea in principle but you would have to be sure to have cast an airtight seal between the two.

Prolly easy enough but I don't know having never tried it. Don't fancy a big lump of heavy concrete much myself. More mass to strain myself with.

Groundbreaking work as usual Graham. Demething without seperation and promoting near instant seperation of bio and byproduct takes the whole concept of the GL1day that much further. Very worthwhile goal. The ultimate green dry wash. Thanks for all the good work you do here.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Aloha

Well I think I got something that is close adapting an appleseed processor setup to be a push-pull type.

I am open to suggestions before I start locking everything down and permently mounting everything.


quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids


Imagepush-pull2.JPG (47 Kb, 414 downloads)
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
quote:
am open to suggestions

I think you are going to trap air around your heating element, which it going to shorten its life and may actually be dangerous. I think it should be mounted horizontally and slightly down with the electrical-attachment end down so any air that is trapped is away from the element itself.
 
Location: Southern WI, USA | Registered: May 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Well I think I got something that is close adapting an appleseed processor setup to be a push-pull type.


Hmmm. Do you think a water heater would take the vacuum? Confused Confused


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ant: you have a good point there. I guess we'll either have to take the risk, or stick to smaller tanks...


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
horizontally and slightly down with the electrical-attachment end down so any air that is trapped is away from the element itself.


Ok I'll make a horizontal mounted heater element with the ports on the side so there will be fluid in it at all times I guess I could use a shorter element and mount it up higher in the setup instead of on the pump.


quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bernyjb:
quote:
Well I think I got something that is close adapting an appleseed processor setup to be a push-pull type.


Hmmm. Do you think a water heater would take the vacuum? Confused Confused


I've been drawing a deep vacuum (28-30"Hg) on a 40 gallon and now an 80 gallon hot water tank processor for a little over a year now. I use it dewater the oil and to remove the methanol from finished BD and glycerin. No problems to date. As mentioned earlier, keep the head space to a minimum.
 
Registered: March 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 26 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel Equipment    GL Push-Pull processor

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014