Finally got around to putting this together.

You can see the Intake from the upper heater element port. That goes down to a one inch intake manifold. The output is also one inch. It tees to the 2 3/4 inch static mixers then goes into two ports on the top.

The upper intake is very near the level that I normally fill the processor to. So, if any methanol is separating out, it will get mixed back in from there.

I have not used it yet. Hope to this weekend. I will let you know how it works.

Andrew

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,

picture131.jpg (34 KB, 1303 downloads)

Wow! That was good timing...I just posted a question for you on the "Making Biodiesel" forum about this very thing.

Okay, from what you can tell, does this really improve the flow? I.e., is a single 3/4" line the restriction?

Any updates on flow differences between the HF pump and the Northern Tools pump when they're on less restricted plumbing?

Thanks for posting!

George,

I had intended to do some step by step detailed testing. But, I got to into just putting it together...

I was a bit worried that the static mixers would slow down the flow rate. I timed it with the old plumbing and with the new plumbing filling the processor. Unfortunately, that way I can't take advantage of the second input...

My test was not too accurate, but it came out almost the same.

So, the one inch output & dual inputs into the tank cancel the slowing effect of the the mixers. Something like that.

I did not retest the two pumps against eachother. Although the outside of them is not exactly the same, they did test the same before. I figure that since they were the same on the one test, they will be pretty close if not the same under other conditions too.

If I were you, and wanted to run two pumps, you could double the setup I have. Put in a 1.5 inch or 2 inch maifold and tee 2 one inch lines out of it into your two pumps. Put two static mixers on top of each of them.

How many and how big are you inputs on top of your tank?

Andrew

Thanks, Andrew. I am worried about the head pressure when using the static mixers as well...it is surprising how much resistance you feel just blowing through one! So pairing them in parallel should help a lot.

I also think that it is beneficial to make sure that you're pulling from the oil/methanol layer, although others have said that unless you have REALLY poor agitation no such layering should form. I guess I don't want to assume that I don't have the issue, so I was planning on pulling from a port that sits well above the potential glycerine layer. The other pull would come from the normal place near the bottom.

I really hesitate to use two pumps unless I have to...because it means that you have that much more plumbing, that many more ball valves, and so forth. I bought a "self priming" pump from HF some time ago that isn't (self-priming, that is), but it is rated at 640gph versus the standard HF pump's rating of 330, so I may use that instead and pull the check valve out to reduce the restriction a bit. I hope it holds up as well as the cheapy one has! But using it in conjunction with increased pipe capacity should help.

My appleseed currently has 3 3/4" fittings on the top, 2 3/4" ones on the side, and a heater port that is unused. I have two static mixers that I'll be plumbing in parallel as you are.

George,

quote:

others have said that unless you have REALLY poor agitation no such layering should form.

I know, people report no visible separation layer, but I have to wonder if the composition is somewhat different from top to bottom.

If it were me, I'd see if you can get a little bigger pump. I think NT has one with 1.5 inch fittings. If not, it will probably work fine and you can always change the pump later after test and see if it works up to your expectations/standards.

Andrew

Andrew,

I can't tell from the pictures. Are you running 1" plumbing between the input TEE and the pump? What about from the output of the pump to the Tee where it spits into two streams?

Rick,

Thanks for your question. I will post closeups of that part.

Yes, it is 1 inch into the pump. That piece has the two 3/4 inch inputs, fromt the bottom and the upper element port.

It is 1 inch leaving the pump, up to a 1 inch tee which goes to the two static mixers.

Hope that is clear.

Andrew

quote:

but it is rated at 640gph versus the standard HF pump's rating of 330,

Have you tested yours? My HF pump actually empties my 20 gallon processor thru a 5/8 hose in under 2 min 20 sec, which is over 500 GPH. I think the poor quality may lead to large variances in pump output, so they under-rate them as 330 to be safe.

Joat,

No, I have not tested my own pumps.

I did a test on my friend's HF &NT pumps. The result is here.

In short, they were both the same. Very similar to the speed you report. Both were much different from rated speed.

Personally, I don't think there is much variation from pump to pump of the same brand, but who knows.

Andrew

At that price point there will be few differances.

Pumpbuilder,

Not to nit pick, but if they are cheap and poor quality as you imply, wouldn't there be lots of variation in quality due to poor QC?

It seems that higher quality products would be made to more exacting standards.

Andrew

quote:

Not to nit pick, but if they are cheap and poor quality as you imply, wouldn't there be lots of variation in quality due to poor QC?

Andrew,
I have never QC'd a pump, but having seen the inside of a HF pump I am curious to what would be missed in the lack of QC that would provide such variation?
Thanks,
DD

DD,

I think you and I agree. I personally don't suspect that there is much variation.

I was only pointing out that Pumpbuilder's comment did not make much sense.

No big deal really.

Andrew

Andrew,

I am trying to finish designing my own such system, and I ran into a problem before I even got started: the upper heater element is right at the same level as my "magic" 200l mark. Since I pre-heat the oil in a 55gal drum, I realistically start with a max of 190l of oil. Although adding the methoxide puts me over that 200l mark, it isn't by much and I am still not able to pull from that port until I've added it.

I was thinking about trying to make a curved downpipe to pull from lower down the processor. Hopefully my new pump and the venturi from the other port will be enough to get the flow started over that hump. Did you run into this problem, or did I just luck out on this particular water heater?

I'm now thinking that I'll just pull from the lower thermostat port, and keep a heating element in that same port if I can do so without having the element clog too much of the cross section of the pipe.

George,

quote:

Did you run into this problem, or did I just luck out on this particular water heater?

I lucked out.

quote:

Since I pre-heat the oil in a 55gal drum, I realistically start with a max of 190l of oil. Although adding the methoxide puts me over that 200l mark, it isn't by much and I am still not able to pull from that port until I've added it.

I am still new to this design and working out the kinks of using it. And, stopping all the leaks between the pump and the mixers. That said, I think you don't want to take from the upper port until all your methoxide has been added anyway. It might be just perfect on yours too. One option to help is to tilt your processor a little. It might give you just enough. This has the added benefit of better drainage when you empty it.

What is the max capacity (claimed and actual) of your tank?

PM me if you want. I have some other ideas.

Andrew

Hello Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
I am still new to this design and working out the kinks of using it. And, stopping all the leaks between the pump and the mixers.
Andrew

Try some Teflon Pipe Thread Tape.


I find that 10 wraps is usually enough

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
Hello Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
I am still new to this design and working out the kinks of using it. And, stopping all the leaks between the pump and the mixers.
Andrew

Try some Teflon Pipe Thread Tape.

I find that 10 wraps is usually enough

I thought you were just mixing with a stick in an open top poly drum out in a field away fro many structures. Have you started to use a real reactor these days ?

Hello Dodgeram

I have had indoors plumbing for years.

Tilly,

quote:

Try some Teflon Pipe Thread Tape.

Wow, you really do have a lot to add...

It turns out that the standard I need to achieve for "sealed" is much higher do to the pressure build-up between the pump and the mixers. Shoulda coulda thought of that, but didn't.

In the re-build, I am using teflon and rectoseal #5. Hope that fixes it.

Andrew

Hello Andrew:
Always glad to be of service.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Morris:
Wow, you really do have a lot to add...

It turns out that the standard I need to achieve for "sealed" is much higher do to the pressure build-up between the pump and the mixers. Shoulda coulda thought of that, but didn't.
In the re-build, I am using teflon and rectoseal #5. Hope that fixes it.
Andrew

Let's see now.
Teflon Pipe tape is rated at 500deg F and 10,000psi. But it is not good enough for the Pressure/Temperature you will be using!

Can you please arrange to have an online video link recording when you turn your reactor on.
I think this will be specatcular.