Sponsors Biodiesel & SVO Home Biodiesel & SVO Forums Biodiesel Equipment Canoe Paddle Processor, TRUE Turbulent mixing, <1/2 hr reaction?
Biodiesel & SVO Home Biodiesel & SVO Forums Biodiesel Equipment Canoe Paddle Processor, TRUE Turbulent mixing, <1/2 hr reaction?Page 1 2
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I started this thread from comments that were drifting off topic on page 5 of this thread..
Specifically:
So this is the thread. Please comment, I think this is intriguing. |
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I just hope I get rich enough to ship out a pump for testing one of these days to see what the chopping action would do..... Well hopefully I will get a chance to grab a prototype after we launch our new line this winter, just have to talk the owner into letting me do it.
Doug Felt Industrial Sales Manager Petroleum Solutions 11111 Iota Drive San Antonio TX 78217 (210) 661-2489 www.petroleumsolutionsinc.com Texas Dieselcraft Distributor Follow advice at your own risk. |
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Theory :
Andrew claims much better conversion by drawing the oil from 2 places. Drawing oil just from the bottom in an appleseed does not work as well as taking it from the bottom and the heating element port. It would seem that with the slow pumping in the appleseed using a HF pump that the byproduct would start to seperate and that the bottom layer would be rich in glycerin. By also taking it from a higher place in the mix the mix would be less glycerin rich ? Maybe constant hard mixing the glycerin rich mix on the bottom into the mix slows down or stops the reaction ? After the first hard mix of just a few mins. little mixing is needed to make high conversion biodiesel. Surely adding the methanol and lye through the pump causes a hard first mix. What is going on after that ? With the Canoe Paddle Processor maybe we are like doing a multi stage process without removing the glycerin and adding extra lye and methanol ? What do you think Andrew ? I am suprised you are not commiting about this. It was our phone conversation that got me started on this seeing how little mixing is really needed. Thanks, Steve |
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Ya know, seeing this manual mixing work makes me think one of the drum tippers from mcmaster (pgs. 1240) Style A (part #2646T15) looks like a winner. Lift it up, spin it around to mix. Can't imagine being able to mix it any better than that..
Band heater? Or maybe just wheel it over a burner (it lifts 11") with one of the plugs open to heat/dewater? Sealed barrel with the exception of the bung hole should be plenty safe . If you can vacuum demeth or maybe put a simple condenser and band heat the barrel to boil it out of the BD I don't see a need for a pump at all, nor any other plumbing nor any of that stuff. Sure it's $500, but it would be SOOOOO simple. |
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100 liter test.
100 liters 145 F Mixed 3 min then 1 min every ten mins for total of 8 mins. mixing. Passed 3/27 at 67F after 1 hour. I love my Canoe Paddle Processor ! ! !  8 mins. ! I used to spend more time than that on all the extra 3/27 tests. |
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Amazing... What to know something funny and probably related? For my last 2 Acid/Base reactions I have gotten beeter titration decrease from the acid stage than I ever had previously. In both cases I set the timer controlling my HF pump to kick on for 3hrs twice a day for 4 days. So that's 3hrs on-9hrs settling-3hrs on-9hrs settling. 24 total hours mixing. Titrations dropped 9 to 3.3 and 8.5 to 2.2. I have run the pump continuously for 48hrs and not gotten as much of a drop. I can't set my timer for anything less than 2hrs on time..but I think I should try to play with this when I get a chance. |
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Steve,
How much methanol, catalyst and what was the titration and water content? I have pointed out before that there is nothing magical about the "it takes 1 hr" to make BD thing. Some of my early test batches were done in a few minutes of very heavy mixing. There appears to be a relationship between mixing and amount of excess methanol required. Less methanol = more mixing required. On the other hand... Better mixing = less methanol required, or less time required Just rambling... it is a Steved thread right? |
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Ryan,
I do not recomend leaving the HF pump on unattended. They have caused some reported fires. Doug Felt Industrial Sales Manager Petroleum Solutions 11111 Iota Drive San Antonio TX 78217 (210) 661-2489 www.petroleumsolutionsinc.com Texas Dieselcraft Distributor Follow advice at your own risk. |
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Hi Andrew,
Sorry about the short test post. I was running. I used about 24 liters on this batch. That was all my methanol so I used it. 1500 grams of KOH 85%. Titrated at 7 KOH 85%. The oil sat for a long time in a black 55 gallon drum. That is all the dewatering it had and it was filtered through a window screen. Thanks, Steve
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Hi Ryan P. , I think your setup might work with intermittent mixing. I removed my pumps and I am not going to try. You could be the first person to try this style of mixing with a pump ? Thanks, Steve |
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We are doing the World Famous DR Pepper Technique (Pat Pend) in a 55 gallon drum about half full using a wood post hole digger replacement handle to mix.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/857600061 This way of making biodiesel has been with us for a while. If every biodiesel thread posted was deleted except this one : http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/857600061 we would still have 99.9% of the best info ! Thanks, Steve |
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Steve,
With 24% methanol, you are giving yourself a a good head start on the reaction. My tests show that the more excess methanol is used, the shorter mixing time required to pass 3/27. Also, is there a reason you undershot the catalyst by 24g? |
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Hi Andrew,
If you look at the 60 liter tests you will see I went high on the lye and methanol the first test then lower on the second test. I kept the lye low and the methanol high on the 100 liter test. I will go much lower with the methanol on the next batch now that I know it works so well. We did single stage with 19% methanol in a 60 liter test and passed 3/27 at 65F. We have used different amounts and mixing times on every batch and we still get great results as far as passing 3/27. More lye=more soap. Andrew, spend about $30 and build one too. You are in for a treat ! It is a learning tool like no other ! Thanks, Steve P.S. I am a Canoe Paddle Processing newbee. If you start now I will only be a few weeks ahead of you. Make a half a dozen batches and you will know more about it than me ? |
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 We mounted it on an old jet ski trailer. This setup could be mounted many different ways. I like being able to tilt it for better draining. It needs to be painted black for better solar heating. You can process, wash and dry in this setup. Add a band heater, window screen, carboy, scales and a couple of 5 gallon buckets and you too can be Canoe Paddle Processing ! |
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 We used 3/4" pipes on the small bung. On the 2" bung we put an 2" to 1" adapter in the 2" bung hole and used 1" pipe. There are 2 drains on the bottom. This message has been edited. Last edited by: steved,  Picture_297.jpg (269 Kb, 27 downloads) |
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Sponsors Biodiesel & SVO Home Biodiesel & SVO Forums Biodiesel Equipment Canoe Paddle Processor, TRUE Turbulent mixing, <1/2 hr reaction?
Biodiesel & SVO Home Biodiesel & SVO Forums Biodiesel Equipment Canoe Paddle Processor, TRUE Turbulent mixing, <1/2 hr reaction?© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2008