I'm completely amazed.... how much do you produce weekly?

I'm making this wash tank to service my 150gal reactor.... I couldn't imagine a situation where i would need more short of having a 500gal setup like Frankie Lind from Pogoil. He uses a lot of those high volume poly agricultural tanks and a skid loader to move full totes of oil around! I'm dumbfounded by that setup.

I really consider myself to be a small producer still , but I have made as much as 2000 gallons a week . This is all still experimental production though . I am hoping to eventually produce about 1500 gallons a day . I find it alot easier to use the forklift to move things around right now because I am constantly changing things to try to get it the way I want it .

Hey ProjectPurity,
I made that modified manifold I mentioned, and here it is.


It is installed on the bottom of a 60 gallon cone bottom tank. I'll be using this to settle out the diesel a little better after the glycerin has been removed and after it the methanol has been removed. It seems a little more glycerin falls out after the methanol is removed. As Legal Eagle stated, the wash is much easier if all of the glycerin is removed.

Here is the manifold before installation.


Here is a side view of the part of the manifold that will eventually be the stand pipe part. It is just 3/4 inch 90 or "elbow" glued to a piece of 3/4 inch pipe. I slightly reamed out a 2" by 3/4" reducer so that the 3/4" pipe would slide through "snuggly".


I had to slightly cut the 3/4" elbow so that it would fit into the 2" T. I did this on a lathe but it could easily be done with a grinder or file.


Here is a view of the top of the manifold after the standpipe part was glued in. First I measured to determine how far the 3/4 inch pipe had to protrude in from the 3/4" by 2" reducer to be about center of the 2" T. After I know the measurement I glued them together. Then I glued the assembly into the 2" T.


As you saw in the picture, the stand pipe only sticks up into the tank by a few inches. That's why I add this pipe on top. The holes are cut into the pipe to determine the height that the BD will be drained to. The pipe is long enough that I can easily reach in through the top of the tank and screw it in. This design also greatly reduces the amount of glycerin that falls into the standpipe. The holes I drill are intentionally drilled slightly off set of each other to keep the pipe strong.


In hind sight, I should have glued the female threads to the manifold and the male threads to the standpipe. That way I could easily apply some teflon tape the male threads before it was screwed into the manifold.

It passed the water leak test and is already settling a batch of BD.

-Mcguyver

mcguyver,

That's sweeeet!

What sticks out in my mind first is that you crammed an elbow inside a tee! I rotate the whole thing so that the standpipe comes out the straight side and the foot drain is on the perpendicular side of the tee. Both will work, but, for my purposes, i don't think i'll be able to get an elbow inside a tee.... maybe i can, but the other way made more sence to me when i was building the manifold.

Again, great work! How well does it work for you?


Legal,

I was wondering about those 1000 Liter tote sized Bete sprayers.... how far above the biodiesel would it need to be suspended to achieve full cone? How much water pressure do they use (i understand how the little one for 55gals would be ok on a hose, but maybe the tote one would need more). What is the flow rate?

My hope was to mount it in the 7-9" screw off top thing so that i can have a closed system when i'm washing. I wouldn't be opposed to hacking off the top, but if i can avoid it i certainly would.

To give you an idea; My MP-187 (commonly called M-187) gets a full cone as close as 5 inches (11cm) from the surface and would get quite wide if it wasn't for the restrictions of the drum's sides.
The TF29-180 looks really neat too, and if installing it into the lid would more than do the job in the 180 degree configuration.
Full info on flwo rates ect. at the link.

Just did a little extra snooping at the Bete site and found the FF209 145degree fan. Now I am playing with the idea of getting one of these for the new drying tank I want to build this winter.A straight out fan that covers 145degrees will certainly help go a long way toward quick drying times too. Oooh, just a thought; a tote as a drying tank using one of these.They come in 1/2in brass so won't crap out like a plstic one would.
I really like nice professional equipment

Hey ProjectPurity,
The only reason I did it that way is because using the T the other way was going to put my drain valve right next to the floor. I only have a little room under the tank and I hate to get all the way down on the floor with any kind of valve.
Otherwise I would have built it just like yours, it would be easier.
So far it works great. Ever since I read Legal Eagle's post about keeping the glycerin out of the wash my washing has been a little easier. This just helps make it happen

-mcguyver

ProjectPurity I have a question about how you dry your fuel in a 275 gal tote? I can get the 275 and 350 gal ones for guess this free. I have about 500 gallons to be washed and dried I am way behind in getting this project in full swing. I need to dry a large amount to get caught back up. Also instead of a standpipe setup is it possible to use a submersible pump and suck the fuel from the top. There is a guy in seattle that has a video and thats how he did it. I have a cheap harborfreight but it had issues with blowing the seal pumping wvo so at this time I cant try that method!

rodman,
This is still in the design and construction phase for me. I used to use an IBC for drying but eventually thought much better of it because i had to essentially wash my entire stock of fuel each time (i never kept more than maybe 55gal at a time because of my production volume, which totally defeated the reasoning for using the tote). Also the following setback really makes an unmodified IBC a really bad choice for a drying tank.

Unless you decapitate the tote the ~9" opening at the top is prohibitive to drying. What i used to do is circulate the washed wet biodiesel out of the foot drain and into the ~9" by a sprayer wand from a garden hose. This appeared to work great at first... 1hr and my biodiesel was clear. But after a while i found it a bit odd that if i dried at night and tried to pump it out to my car the next morning, it was cloudy and wet again... "What could be causing this?" i though, but then realized that all of the water vapor that evacuates the biodiesel during drying just gathers on the underside of the top of the tote and just drips back down in later. At this point i was not heat drying either, so drying took a while. Also, i got a lot of odd sludge in the bottom of my Storage/Drying/Dispensation IBC... had to clean the whole thing out. So now i just dry in 30-40gal incriments in the typical drying 55gal barel.

A word to you though, you could easily dry in an IBC if you would remove the top so that water could easily blow off into the air instead of condense inside the tank. You'd probably want to hinge the lid somehow so that your tank wouldn't get sludgy with bugs and stuff when you're not using it.


Legal,

I guess i'm going to have to do some snooping my self, i really like the idea of the square sprayer.... total and unredundant spray coverage really has it's appeal to me. I'm totally on board with these BETE sprayers after my last batch in which i was careful to remove all of the glycerine and was able to harshly spray on the first wash.... unbelievable what a little glycerine will do to lengthen your entire wash process!

That makes sense that it would leave the froplets on the underside of the tank. Ok back to me original plan use one tote for the to be dried and the other for dried waiting for gravity filtering to dispensing tank. Any ideas or concerns about a submersible pump?

Argh ! Bete Nozzle TF29-180 is the key to tote drying,IMO.
You don't completely decapitate it,but leave one side ledged just enough to afix the nozzle.
It gives a 145 degree FLAT FAN spray pattern. This is sufficient to cover the entire width of a tote from one side to the other in a flat sheet,providing the nozzle is set up against the edge and pointed slightly downward at the other side. A good air flow over it and it is done.
If I could get a tote inside my reator house I would set one up myself like this; as is I'll have to be satisfied with using a 200 liter drum and the same nozzle.Never know, I may get a bigger door at one point :-).
Even if the BD is stilla little too wet when it goes into the tote-drier all you have to do is heat it all up and let the water settle to the bottom and then pop open the ball valve to drain it. I really like this tote drying idea.

Legal,

I'm not certain that i want what you've described.... let me check if i've properly understood it.

You would affix this sprayer to the edge.... let me just clarify what i want and tell me if this is it. I want a sprayer that can remain in one location without moving or rotating that will cause harsh aggitation over the entire surface. Will this make a tote shaped "cone" while suspended over the center of the where the lid is? I want to make creme out of the BD!

Will this sprayer do that, or am i right in assuming that this is just a flat fan that will need to be "swept" across the surface of the BD to be washed?

edit: Didn't realize that you mentioned that sprayer for tote drying...... what about washing? I'm really wanting to buy one of these for next spring!

Rodman68,
I don't know about a submersable pump tolerant of BD. You might want to start a new thread regarding that if you really want a good answer... i can't help. Plus i think other people searching the forum would appreciate the knoledge being in it's own thread.... i know i get frustrated when something important is burried in a thread about something totally different.

I will start a new post on the submersible question and I am like you I thought that nozzle was for washing not drying. My totes only have the six inch opening so do you think that would be enough if I ran a fan across the top and install that nozzle and how many gpms should you purchase?

quote:

I want a sprayer that can remain in one location without moving or rotating that will cause harsh aggitation over the entire surface. Will this make a tote shaped "cone" while suspended over the center of the where the lid is? I want to make creme out of the BD!

The 120 degree full cone square pattern will do exactly this. Give Bete a call or email them. Tell them you want an MP-187 in 120 degree but with a square spray pattern. You set it up like you said, in the lid dead square in the middle and have at it.

The other thing, the fan, is for drying set over to the one side and tiltled slightly down towards the other side (might want to do this on the wide side). You will most likely need soe sort of relief valve(s) to adjust the spray strength if you use a pump like the clear water one. It is a bit strong for either application. However a ShurFlo Industiral utility pump works great with a relief valve.This is what I have on my wash tank. It does multi-duty, but one of them is washing.
I could see thi8s type of pump do a great job on drying for a tote sized drying tank. There is one with Viton seals ect. that I have in 12V too for the tractor's fuel station that has held up well so far (2,000 litres being constantly full of B100)

DONE!!!!!

I just finished this tonight and posted some pictures here and on www.biodieselpictures.com.

I edited the pictures into one of the first posts on this thread. Here:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/91960555...711053351#1711053351

Hey ProjectPurity,
Your new wash tank looks great. Let us know how it works. BTW, if you slip (not glue) a cap over the pipe sticking up from the standpipe it will not suck air at the end when you’re pumping out the BD (assuming you're pumping). I was sucking a little air towards the end when pumping out the BD but the cap fixed it so it pumped out all the way to the cross fast and efficiently.
-mcguyver

ProjectPurity,
I like your washtank, and have an idea for you should you have the need to build another. If you plumb the bottom drain with a standpipe on the outside of the tank, you may find it easier. I use an exterior standpipe for my washtanks. On the bottom of the tank is a port with a Tee plumbed onto it. On the horizontal port of the Tee is a valve to lower the water when I need to remove the BD. Up from the Tee is my standpipe, set to the hieght I determined will keep enough water in the tank. Since the BD will float on the water, drianing at the bottom will only let water escape to the level of your standpipe. At a height that you determin, put one of Murphy's bulk head fittings into your tote. This other port will allow you to remove the washed BD without having to remove all of the water from the tank. I use the continuous wash method, but you can reuse your wash water by putting a catch tank on the outside and pump your water back into the tote. Because you can see through the tote you will be able to lower your water to some point below the upper drain. A layer of BD will remain in the tank with some water. But that is of no conseqence because you will be adding more BD to wash. Let me know what you think, I hope this was clear??

That sounds interesting, do you have a picture... i've found that the value of one of those is roughly equivalent in worth to ~1000 words

Hey ProjectPurity,
Here is a picture of what scaldy1 is talking about.


scaldy1 is talking about a continuous drain while you’re washing while the standpipe you built is for draining BD off the top of the water.

Unfortunately the standpipe on the outside can never do what the standpipe on the inside can and vice versa.

If you look closely at the picture (it's kind of cluttered) you will see the modified version of your manifold in use. I've adapted a recirculating pump and a continuous drain to my wash tank.

-mcguyver

Sorry I dont have any pics of my tanks, but mcguyver's setup is close. What I was trying to say is to make an exterior standpipe, similar to mcguyver's pic. But instead of plumbing an inside standpipe, put one of the bulk head fittings on the side of the tank. If you look at mcguyver's pic you can see where the BD level is in the tank. The exterior standpipe allows for continuous washing, and a low drain on it will allow you to lower your water level so that the BD is just below the upper drain(where you put the bulkhead fitting). You open the upper drain to remove the washed BD. Imagine another valved outlet in mcguyver's tank at the level of his BD in the tank. Hope this cleared it up some.

Hi scaldy1,
The way this manifold works is you can drain the water from the bottom and you can drain the BD through a separate pipe also traveling through the bottom. The idea is to avoid drilling a hole in the side of the tank and having a possible leak. Sometimes the sides of a large poly tank can be flimsy and hard to get a bulkhead fitting to stay sealed. It's rather hard to see but if you look at the bottom of my tank there is a 2 inch "T". From one side of the "T" is a 3/4 PVC pipe that has the recirculating pump line attached, the continuous drain and the manual drain. On the other side of the "T" is the drain from the standpipe inside the tank. The standpipe height is at 3 gallons so I drain the water down to the 2 gallon mark then I can drain the BD out of the standpipe. Just like you said, there will be some BD left in the tank but it'll just be part of the next batch to be washed.

Does this make any sense?? Let me know.

-mcguyver


-mcguyver