Nice pics Graydon. You want better resultion for the Mist Pro, backlight it. It will show the full cone better as well as the dispersion nozzle.

OK, boys and girls, who besides me is waiting to see how the discussion about this exciting method of washing will be kept out of the JtF files ? (the "X" files?).

I gave the M-187 a workout again yeterday when I only had limited time to do a wash, so I let the tank fill up with the spray head on just enough to form the full cone,but this gave an extended wash at the same time and once full I turned off the water and turned on the heat from Joe_M's heater spear (still LOVE that contraption). Once nice and hot (about an hour or so ) I flipped on the M-187 to full blast and left it there for a little better than 5 minutes. 5 minutes may not seem like alot, but try sitting in front of a timer as it ticks off second after second up to 5 minutes. It's a looonnggg time.
Anyway, that was my final wash for this batch.

I can vouch that 5 mins that m-187 moves a ton of water, I tested mine and with my pressure I filled a 5 gal bucket in just over a minute so my washes are 2 mins max.

Graydon;
I just had another look see at your pics. Very nice. And now for the animated version... hehe.

Once you've washed with these little beggars you ain't gonna be be gentle ever again, so for those who like it a bit rough, this is the toy ... (<-the double-entendre is intentional and in poor taste and ... so what?)

Hope you sell a million of them.
(then you could afford to take a vacation to our Great White North in the summertime and visit) This whole washing thingy needs to move up a notch or three and these toys are just the ticket to make that happen.
Once you have understood and taken the necessary steps to assure yourself that no glycerine gets into the wash cycle and that the reaction is complete these "new" methods aren't going to cause any worries, they will actually aleviate a couple.
I look at bubbling to wash a little like pen and paper to doing math. It works and gets the job done, but if you want to get the same result a whole whack of alot quicker you use a calculator. But before you can effectively use a caculator, in order to understand the process, you should use a pen and paper, however once you have understood the process and can graduate from pen and paper to a calculator why would you want to stay with pen and paper ? Clear the deck of the reaction and glycerine thingies and then feel confident about using these MistPro and WashPro heads. They work, do a great job and do it in much less time than the original methods.
The caveat here is that the whole thing is contingent on two fatcors; the reaction being complete and the absence of glycerine in the wash. As for the rest of it ? Oil and water always seperate.

So I see some bevels on the ID (m-187) and what appears to be a .187/.125 thru hole. Is there something on the inside of the thru hole that can't be seen?

The inside is machined into a spiral like pattern it's hard to focues for an internal pic but it's pretty nifty.

Here's what he's talking about:


Here's what the "cone-like spray pattern" looks like:


And here's what the fitting looks like:


More pics of it here:
http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/photos/products/washpro/

And, yes, my camera has gotten a real workout since I started into Biodiesel. It's probably paid for itself 10X over or something like that.

I love the thing!
Olympus C-5050. About 3 years old, but man does it take good pics! Takes nice little video files too. I highly recommend it.

-Graydon
The Biodiesel Community Picture Guy

I wonder if I can use this fitting to spray hot water down through the oil in my version of a scrubbing tower. I think that using a submergable (epoxy coated) in-line heater and waterpump might be better than blowing bubbles through the water and oil. What do you think?

It's made of Stainless Steel so it'd probably do the job. You could also contact Bete directly & check w/ one of their engineers.

Send me a private message & I'll give you the engineer's name & # that I've been working with.
-Graydon

Last night I installed my mistpro on my 55-gallon drum wash tank. I used PVC and attached piping on my wash stand to go up beside the tank and reach over to the center of the tank. I was using 3/4" PVC, so I had to get an adapter to neck down to 1/4" to mount the mistpro.

I did some testing with the mistpro and it appears that I'm getting around 10 gallons of water in 1 hour of misting (with my water pressure). Sound about right?

This is a big improvement for me. It used to take me almost three hours to get about 8-9 gallons of water in the tank with the Orbit / Arizona kit. I'm hoping I can finish washing in one day like this...

Anyway, the real question I wanted to ask is if anyone else noticed that their biodiesel changed appearance when misting with the mistpro.

I was surprised to see that the bio (which had previously been washed a few times beforehand) started getting creamcicle orangish-white at the top of the washtank when the mistpro was on. After stopping, the appearance changed to more of a "marbled" look...with darker streams of clearer bio coming up.

I'm thinking maybe the mistpro is putting out a high quantity of water and it's saturating the top few inches of bio with water...moreso than the Arizona misters ever did. Don't think it's an emulsion or anything...

Anyone else notice this? Any thoughts?

I have run the Mist Pro's big brother the Wash Pro (M-187) in a last wash for as long as 20 minutes full out (I forgot it) and when I got back to it everything was that coffee cream coloured. I figured for sure I had an emulsion as the Wash Pro puts out quite a bit of water in an agressive manner, but I just let it all settle normally. The next morning the biodiesel was crystal clear in the wash tank, so over to drying it all went.
Once you have eliminated the two trouble spots of washing; the incomplete reaction and glycerine getting into the wash cycle yopu can pretty well have your way with washing without worrying too much about it, oil and water will always seperate. However if you do not have a complete reaction or glycerine has gotten into the wash cycle then the agressiveness of these nozzles may cause some trouble and require a few extra washes, the first couple being short lived (1-2 minutes tops). These nozzles move alot of water so in just a minute the BD is getting a good wash.

Can one of you fine people point the way to a good "Keeping the glycerine out of the wash tank using an Appleseed" thread? I can't seem to find one with the search function.

Also, what is the optimal level for the misting head to be at above the biodiesel in the wash tank? To be more specific: I'm using a 55 gallon HDPE barrel, and about 30 gallons of unwashed bio goes in each time (a little above half the tank). Should my misting head be somewhere down inside the tank? Right at the opening to the tank? Somewhere above the opening?

Thanks a bunch.

Just to answer a few questions on it.

The height we've been using the MistPro's at in testing is right in the top of the drum. Drilled a hole in the center of the lid & stuck it down in there.

Looks like this:


My demo guy sometimes varies the height that he sticks it in, but it doesn't really have a bearing on whether it works or doesn't work at a certain height.

Marble Looking bio
Yep. It's a lot more aggressive of a mist than the Arizona Mist Kits. My demo guy that's been using them say's that he'll get about 1-2 inches of emulsion as he's misting but once he shuts it off, the emulsion breaks within hours--sometimes within minutes of turning them off (like Legal is seeing w/ the Wash Pro).


And here's the link you're looking for for keeping glycerin out of the wash cycle.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/5811056851

Enjoy!
-Graydon

Thanks so much G. Graydon Blairdy.

I just sent my order. Be sure to check out the attached note.

HigherPie;
Don't be put off by the diminutive size of the MistPro when you get it.The little beggar puts out a nice full cone (which is why it's irrelevant as to what it's position is) at a good steady rate.
The WashPro screws direct into 1/2" NPT,is full cone,meaning the water coming out isn't like an umbrella with only the edges receiving water but the inside of the umbrella is full as well making it so that the whole of the surface gets hit when using the 120 degree configuration.
The "emulsion" (which it's not really) is really just plenty of water getting mixed into the BD,sort of like when you do a "shake 'em up" thing to see if the fuel needs an extra wash or not.You shake shake shake and everything goes coffee cream, but soon the water and oil seperate.Same thing, only with more of it.As a side benefit these nozzles are stainless steel,and as such will not wear out in our application,even after prolonged use.
Worth every cent of the purchase price.

Thanks Legal. I went with the MistPro for now until I am certain that I'm keeping all the glycerine out of the wash tank. In a few months, I might try upgrading to the WashPro. If there's one place my disposable income likes to go, it's Graydon's pocket.

You've mentioned several times that you can completely wash your fuel in a couple of hours with the WashPro. What do you think is a reasonable estimate with the MistPro? Could I completely wash a batch in 6 hours? A day? With no bubbling necessary? And when it's done, it'll be just as clear and "see-through" as after a few straight days of bubbling?

And finally, you say not to worry about the "not-really-an-emulsion" emulsion. Suppose I get some glycerine in the wash tank. Will I be able to distinguish this "actually-an-emulsion" emulsion from the harmless kind? Or should I just shut up now and be careful?

HigherPie;
You should be able to easily finish washing in a day as the actual time required pouring the water is greatly diminished and then it takes a little while for the water to settle. That is the time factor.Wash in a day, settle overnight after the final wash and you are good to go.Hot water works best,if you gave it.
Graydon posted the link to the discussion on keeping glycerine out of the wash cycle. Of course the way I prefer is the seperate tank with a StandPipe but not everyone has the luxury of space to deal with which is why I suggested using pails/buckets as an intermediary step from the reactor to the wash tank.
Just taking very rudimentary caution will keep all the glyc out,so yes, be careful about that.

You will not need to bubble at all, unless you use one in your drying apparatus, like some people do. The only use I have for my air pump is in the vent of the methoxide carboy to lightly pressurize it while sucking the contents out into the oil flow. This isn't really necessary, but I just want t o keep the methanol completely closed-to-the-air (fumeless).
You will do well with the MistPro and should not need anything else, unless you are dissatisfied with the amount of time involved, which isn't much of a factor. Even with the WashPro there is the water settling times involved so while the whole process is a bit quicker the final settling is still overnight in many cases, unless I can get right at it early in the day in which case by late afternoon it has settled enough to go to drying.This method requires heat,lots of heat, so is not that energy efficient, but it is a bit quicker.
The coffe cream colour is the saturation of the biodiesel with water; no problem as it will seperate. Emulsions will occur if your reaction is incomplete, so titrate carefully and double check your figures before firing up the reactor.
Complete reaction an no glycerine makes for fast, easy and complete washing using either the MistPro or the WashPro.
And as a shameless plug, look into Joe_M's heater spear thingie. It can move from wash to drying tank right along with your batch and provides plenty of heat for the processes. Simple and complete.

Just a shameless plug as well for Joe_M, I've seen & heard SEVERAL success stories from folks using Joe_M's heating spear.

The thing is just ingenious! It works well too!
People I talk to that have them rave about them all the time.

-Graydon

I actually bought one of Joe_M's "well machined heads" a couple months back after I read Legal's Heat Spear thread, so I'm already on it. Just have to put the thing together now.

Thanks again for all the input and advice, guys.

Legal and Graydon,

Just wanted to let you guys know that I tried the seperate settling bucket idea tonight with a batch that was ready to go into the wash tank. I drained an extra 2 gallons (than I normally would) from the processor drain into the bucket. Then I pumped another 2.5 gallons from the processor out of the tube that usually goes straight to the wash tank (figuring there might be some glycerine in the extra piping and in the pump as well).

So then I pumped as usual into the wash tank. I decided to see if this really would make a big difference, so I turned on the misting water full blast for a full 20 minutes (with the old mister of course, and I use hot water). This would have been unheard of for me in the past. I would have gotten serious middle-layer emulsion that would have taken many days to settle out. Tonight, however, there was no emulsion. Nothing. Nada. My entire first wash took 20 minutes instead of the usual "mist 5 minutes, settle 45, mist 5 minutes, settle 45, mist 5 minutes, settle 45, mist 5 minutes, settle 45."

Also, I can already see about an eighth of an inch of glycerine settled out in the bottom of the bucket. I'm sure that'd be more than enough to cause those previous emulsions, huh?

Now I can't wait to get the real man's MistPro head from Graydon and do some serious damage.

Thanks again for the awesome advice, fellas.

You're more than welcome.

It really is quite an advancement in washing.
Gone will be the day's of taking forever to wash.

Legal's the discoverer, I just provide "da goods" to help those that wanna get in on the action.

As alway's, the mister that was bought on Friday will hit your door step on Monday (man I love Priority Shipping!)

-Graydon