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I'm not sure that list is what you get but a military sourced list of the complete kit.

I think you just get 8 burner assmeblies. Nothing else from the list.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You can't be sure without physical inspection but a close look at the photos shows a lot of something packed inside each burner pot?
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is a link to the Coleman mil surplus retail sales site, it shows the basic outer stove unit. this link shows all the components that should be included in the oilburner insert kit.
The same burner unit is on ebay here.

Another ebay one is here, even less money. The float valve is the sorta oval shaped unit in the lower center, slightly to the left.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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based on that, if I was in the USA I'd buy the 8 if they go cheap.

Worth watching and if you all want one dont't bid each other up. Form a cartel and buy them between you.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm try to study this topic but i don't understand,How to build the horizontally burner and How to start/stop?

thank you for you reply.
 
Location: Khoa-Yai Nakronrachasima,Thailand | Registered: October 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Mobius,

Just to be sure, the basic concept that you are using is you are forcing a jet of air thru a pool of oil with the jet just below the surface.

The level is some what self regulating in that if the pool gets a little deaper, the air jet pulls out a little more oil bringing the level back down?


Ron
'85 300D
'83 300D
Since '80 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Several generators
Kubota Tractor
 
Location: NY | Registered: November 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
Hi Mobius,

Just to be sure, the basic concept that you are using is you are forcing a jet of air thru a pool of oil with the jet just below the surface.

YES

quote:

The level is some what self regulating in that if the pool gets a little deaper, the air jet pulls out a little more oil bringing the level back down?


Not really but this is part of it could be a huge discusion. The pool is NOT self regulating.. Perhaps I should say "The pool should NOT be self regulating"
If the burner is running in a mode that self regulates the pool, its not running correctly. The size of the pool should be regulated by the operator/ stove settings.
Let me clarify, the distance from the surface of the pool to the tip of the air jet is CRITICAL for proper combustion. To shallow and you dont get the heat you want.. To deep and it starts to spit instead of spray.


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is a great thread! You have sparked my interest to experiment. THanks Mobius 1 and Murph for your ideas and pics.

Have you seen this writeup on improvements to the MEN stove by Roger Sanders?

Roger Sanders' Waste Oil Heater

Seems like he solved quite a few issues with the original MEN stove.

Murph, what are you using for a burn pot? You are dripping the fuel correct? With no aromizing air, just the hair dryer to force combustion air.
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by canolafunola:
This is a great thread! You have sparked my interest to experiment. THanks Mobius 1 and Murph for your ideas and pics.

Have you seen this writeup on improvements to the MEN stove by Roger Sanders?

Roger Sanders' Waste Oil Heater

Seems like he solved quite a few issues with the original MEN stove.

Murph, what are you using for a burn pot? You are dripping the fuel correct? With no aromizing air, just the hair dryer to force combustion air.


The improved MEN burner is just another high maintenance burner like the original turk.. The improvement is claimed to be easier cleaning.. Which is great but it still needs cleaning which means it still takes time.. Time to shut it down and let it cool, time to clean the pot, time to start it back up.. <<<Not acceptable to me..

The burner in the pictures you saw of mine uses both compressed air to atomize the liquid and a combustion fan.. (The hair dryer was a temporary combustion fan to provide extra air for the burn).. The unit in the photos was just an experiment and proof of concept thing.. (Even though I still use it to flash dry my WVO to remove water)

My system requires NO cleaning or maintenance other than to make sure the fuel tank is filled. I am working on a new unit now.. I'm almost done and should be able to test fire it today.. Its meant to heat air so its a bit of a different design.. My shop is an uninsulated building of about 1500 - 2000 square feet in size with 18 foot ceilings.. There is no heat source in it so this project was a must have for me.. My new burner should put out an adjustable 30,000 - 200,000 btu's of warm air.. It should NEVER require maintanence and it should run all winter long. It even has electronic ignition (Just push a button) so it will eventually be able to be hooked up to a thermostat.

I have put in about 200 hours of experimentation and engineering into the design.. It will burn Biodiesel, Waste Veg Oil, Waste Motor Oil, etc etc.. (but not glycerin) It will also start up by itself when its dead cold and 10 degrees. (although it will take 2 or 3 minutes to pre-ignite itself) It should never need me to do anything but push the start button and keep the fuel tank full.. If it does, I failed.. I'm not into having to shut down the heat to perform maintenance..

If and when this heater works, I'll be building a monster. I've already gotten a request to build a 1,000,000 BTU boiler system for hot water heating... I've started the cad drawings for it.. Its going to be so neat.. It will have 5 of my special burner nozzles in it and will be capable of burning up to 20% glycerin. So far, the biggest problem with the design is the question : "Where are we going to find 10 gallons per hour of oil?" It doesnt sound like much but do the math.. We'll need a tanker truck to keep the damn thing fueled..


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Murph, that sounds great! I wish you success. I suppose the key to success is good atomization of the fuel and complete combustion of the fuel.

Are you using the same concept i.e. a concave burner pot ala Sander's and Mobius 1? Is the concept sound and does it work? Sanders describes the concace burner pot providing an oil film as the burning interface (instead of metal) and it got rid of the hard deposits issue. What are you doing to eliminate cleaning altogether?

quote:
Originally posted by Murphy:
quote:
Originally posted by canolafunola:
This is a great thread! You have sparked my interest to experiment. THanks Mobius 1 and Murph for your ideas and pics.

Have you seen this writeup on improvements to the MEN stove by Roger Sanders?

Roger Sanders' Waste Oil Heater

Seems like he solved quite a few issues with the original MEN stove.

Murph, what are you using for a burn pot? You are dripping the fuel correct? With no aromizing air, just the hair dryer to force combustion air.


The improved MEN burner is just another high maintenance burner like the original turk.. The improvement is claimed to be easier cleaning.. Which is great but it still needs cleaning which means it still takes time.. Time to shut it down and let it cool, time to clean the pot, time to start it back up.. <<<Not acceptable to me..

The burner in the pictures you saw of mine uses both compressed air to atomize the liquid and a combustion fan.. (The hair dryer was a temporary combustion fan to provide extra air for the burn).. The unit in the photos was just an experiment and proof of concept thing.. (Even though I still use it to flash dry my WVO to remove water)

My system requires NO cleaning or maintenance other than to make sure the fuel tank is filled. I am working on a new unit now.. I'm almost done and should be able to test fire it today.. Its meant to heat air so its a bit of a different design.. My shop is an uninsulated building of about 1500 - 2000 square feet in size with 18 foot ceilings.. There is no heat source in it so this project was a must have for me.. My new burner should put out an adjustable 30,000 - 200,000 btu's of warm air.. It should NEVER require maintanence and it should run all winter long. It even has electronic ignition (Just push a button) so it will eventually be able to be hooked up to a thermostat.

I have put in about 200 hours of experimentation and engineering into the design.. It will burn Biodiesel, Waste Veg Oil, Waste Motor Oil, etc etc.. (but not glycerin) It will also start up by itself when its dead cold and 10 degrees. (although it will take 2 or 3 minutes to pre-ignite itself) It should never need me to do anything but push the start button and keep the fuel tank full.. If it does, I failed.. I'm not into having to shut down the heat to perform maintenance..

If and when this heater works, I'll be building a monster. I've already gotten a request to build a 1,000,000 BTU boiler system for hot water heating... I've started the cad drawings for it.. Its going to be so neat.. It will have 5 of my special burner nozzles in it and will be capable of burning up to 20% glycerin. So far, the biggest problem with the design is the question : "Where are we going to find 10 gallons per hour of oil?" It doesnt sound like much but do the math.. We'll need a tanker truck to keep the damn thing fueled..
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by canolafunola:
Murph, that sounds great! I wish you success. I suppose the key to success is good atomization of the fuel and complete combustion of the fuel.

Are you using the same concept i.e. a concave burner pot ala Sander's and Mobius 1? Is the concept sound and does it work? Sanders describes the concace burner pot providing an oil film as the burning interface (instead of metal) and it got rid of the hard deposits issue. What are you doing to eliminate cleaning altogether?


Sander's burner is different than Mobius's and they operate on two very different principles.. Sander's burner is high maintenance.. Mobius has the right idea.. The Mobius burner is the one you want to concentrate on.

Sander's burner is just another burn pot you'll have to clean out.. The Mobius burner does not burn the oil in the pot.. It atomizes it and burns it in the air where it should be burned. There is nothing to clean or clog with the Mobius burner.

The design I am using is more like the mobius sytle but I made some key modifications to it that greatly improve the "controlability" of the burn. I am still in the testing phases and am gathering data.. My first experiement (the photos you see in this thread) went very well.. That unit still works and has not needed a single minute of maintenance. The only problem with it is that I have to light it manually, its outside and collects rain water which has to be cleaned out after each rain, and its a ***** to get started when the temps are below 60 or 70 degrees out. That's all ok because it was just a proof of concept experiment that is being used to dewater oil.. I needed something that would give me some real long term data on performance.. I learned some VERY important things from it and have incorporated what I learned into my new design. The new modifications I incorporated CAN NOT be made unless you have full metal fabrication abilities.. They require some pretty fancy drilling, welding, etc.. to make.. However, the new design will start up with a push of a button in sub-zero (degF) weather and are not affected by rain.


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Murph,

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe the MEN or the Sanders stove should not be classified together with the Mobius I and the one you are working on, which needs electricity for the blower and air compressor. What if you have a power outage? That means no heat unless you have a generator. Suddenly the MEN stove looks very attractive.

What I like to see is a stove that does not require electricity, burns clean and does not require cleaning. What about these lightweight single burner multifuel camp stoves where after it heats up, pressure is self generating and provides the atmomization for the fuel? Has anyone adapted the design of these camp stoves for WVO or WMO?

BTW is your burner for WVO or WMO or both?
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Canola,

I don't think its possible to get any kind of oil to burn clean without positive pressure inside the burn chamber.. The units you are talking about that use natural draft for an air source are negative pressure units. IE: The exhaust stack creates a draft that lowers the pressure inside the burn chamber and causes it to suck in air.. (Like a wood stove) The MEN burner DOES use electricity as far as I know.. They put a pipe down the middle and use a fan to blow air on to the fire..

Anyhow, My unit will burn without electricity if I wanted it to.. it just wont burn clean.. It MUST have air pressure which could be provided by a hand pump.. The amount of air it uses is so little that a 1/2 inch pipe x 12 inches long and pressurized to 100psi will run the burner for almost 3 minutes.
My unit does not require the forced draft fan but it will not burn clean without it.

It will burn any kind of oil.. WVO, WMO, Hydraulic Oil, Fuel Oil, BioDiesel, etc etc..

I'm not sure what your talking about when you refer to the camp stoves.. I've never seen one.. Got a link??


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was thinking of somthing like this:

MSR WHisperlite Internationale
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by canolafunola:
I was thinking of somthing like this:

MSR WHisperlite Internationale


That wont burn anything but fuels with high volatilities.. IE: Low flash points..


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They probably wont but the crucial bit he was pointing out is the loop of metal fuel feed in the flame area.

It preheats the fuel so it comes out as a vapour and burns as efficiently and cleanly as possible.

That is the concept that could be adapted to our burners.

Although as has been said; The price you pay is having crud, left over from the vapourisation, build up inside the preheat coil.

So it becomes a disposable consumable part.

Unless you can figure out how to get the crud to incinerate or dissolve before the pipe melts or dissolves.

If they last long enough and are cheap and easy to make from 8mm microbore copper and a mini bender for example it could be worth it to get that hot, efficient, clean flame.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think you will find it to be a very disposable part. DOE testing of experimental burners that heat vaporized oil wouldn't even run thru one season with the best filtered home heating oil or diesel fuel so I don't think it would run for a few days (or even hours) with waste oil.


Ron
'85 300D
'83 300D
Since '80 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Several generators
Kubota Tractor
 
Location: NY | Registered: November 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Have you got a link to that testing?

Failure of one design does not invalidate the whole concept. Depends how you make things.

Be good to see what they used so we can see what doesn't work and perhaps deduce why and what to try next.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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This is a link to a Phoenix turbin builders club project about a heavy oil burner using "pyroclactic cracking" of heavy oil, the picture on the prior webpage there shows a nice blue flame.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Murphy,

Have you considered utilizing a two tank system like the ones made by frybrid, greasecar, etc. The furnace would start on a low flash point fuel and when the furnace reaches an acceptable tempature, valve(s) would switch from the original (low flash point fuel) to VO. The VO would be up to the proper temp. and would burn efficiently. When the furnace would shut down, the system would switch back to the original fuel to flush the lines, burn pot, nozzels, etc. to perpare it for the next time it fires up again.

Would this work?

Thanks, Kurt
 
Location: Green Bay, WI | Registered: July 06, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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