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Heating WVO with WVO
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I am new to this forum, but I see that anything to offset the cost and hassle of production is helpful. There is a way to build a Babbington burner with slight modifications that will burn vertically instead of horizontally, and it dosent have to have its oil recirculated. It will start and run off of filtered WVO and produce a fairly clean flame easily large enough to use in a NG or propane water heater. I came up with this burner because I'm too cheap to pay for the heating energy to dry my WVO. I think most mechanically inclined people could make one, it is a simple casting/machining job, or it could probably be welded up. I would be happy to share the plans for this burner with anyone that wants them, I also make them. It is basically a large (8" dia)dish or saucer that has a pool of WVO fed into the center from underneath and a jet coming up from the very bottom through which compressed air is fed, the only other requirement is a leveling system to keep the level in the "saucer" constant - just above the jet.
 
Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Can you post a picture to photobucket? worth 1000 words and all that.
 
Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yea,
Let me take a pic of one this weekend with my buddys digicam and i'll put it up by first of next week - mine recently went in the water and it's now a neat looking paperweight.
 
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I appreciate that. It sounds very interesting for maybe heating a large space cheaply.
 
Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hope these pics tell some of the story, I'll post a diagram too, but they could be made in other configurations, as long as the jet (.010") is slightly under the oil - deeper =bigger flame and shallower = smaller.

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Image103395_copy.jpg (30 Kb, 1606 downloads)
 
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the assembled view

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Image103394_copy.jpg (38 Kb, 1147 downloads)
 
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This sounds awesome, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

So, how much air do you feed? psi?
Are all 3 legs oil feeds?
How do you maintain the oil level?

Thanks!


Brian

2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Mercedes 300D Turbo
1986 Isuzu P'up (NA)
1985 Mercedes 300D Turbo
75/25 WVO/D2 for warm weather
50/50 WVO/D2 for cold weather
Uniqueness is a treasure not to be buried. - Laurence Martel
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The air pressure Ive been using is around 80 psi,but Im sure you could get by with less. The 3 legs are all oil feeds, but in this pic one of them is not used (capped). The reason for this is that when it is cold, the WVO is thicker, so to allow it to flow into the "dish" easier I just use multiple feeds (and it also gives you the stand). If you light it when the ambient temp is too low, the fire will use oil at a rate that is greater than one small feed can replace it - so one or three feeds can be used. The oil level is maintained by a seperate bucket/vessel that has a float valve in it, sort of like a toilet valve, any valve that will maintain a certian level, then that bucket is raised or lowered until it keeps the jet just under the oil level. As the fire consumes the oil, the level of liquid drops opening the float valve filling the bucket (and the dish) until it reaches the level that the float turns off the valve - a carb works the same way.
 
Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Like PerkHouse said.

I have been following this thread with great interest and am fasinated with the design. i assume compressed air is fed thow the centre hole/ pipe and the oil is fed through the 3 logs.

Does the fuel level in the bottom make much difference or is it just necessary to ensure that the air entry hole is covered by 1/8-1/4" or so?

What do you use as an air supply?

steve
 
Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That'll teach me to press refresh before i ask questions that were answered about an hour earlier.

Doh............
steve
 
Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do you think a toilet ball/valve would allow clean SVO/WVO through? What type of valve do you use now?

I am imagining a source container up on a shelf. Then, a level maintaining container which is affixed to the burner (a foot or two away) and then the burner itself. I don't think it's feasible to put the float directly into the burner because the heat generated might cause problems, but maybe a brass/stainless float and valve would be ok.(?)

Brian


Brian

2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Mercedes 300D Turbo
1986 Isuzu P'up (NA)
1985 Mercedes 300D Turbo
75/25 WVO/D2 for warm weather
50/50 WVO/D2 for cold weather
Uniqueness is a treasure not to be buried. - Laurence Martel
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use a 5 gal bucket with a float valve (homemade) that is fed by another 5 gal bucket on top of it. The concept of the toilet bowl valve is right - the only probleb is: will it allow a flow rate that is higher than the consumption rate of the burner? and when it is cold, you need even a larger oraface to allow the thicker oil to flow through if you are gonna keep the flow rate high. I think you might get around this with multiple TB valves all feeding the same feed bucket. I have been working on a simple design that would be a high rate simple float valve, but I cant make it work without castings. I'll bet an industrial supply house (McMaster Carr) would have such a weird little item. As far as the level of oil, is just has to be slightly higher than the jet - so you get the whale - blowhole atomization effect. the fuel level over the jet is somewhat important it makes the flame richer (higher) or leaner (lower) and the compressed air is fed through the center leg.
 
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I'm really impressed with this whole idea. I think it's a great contribution. If you can post some more pics like your homemade valve and the unit completely assembled and operational I'd appreciate it!

Thanks again,
Brian


Brian

2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Mercedes 300D Turbo
1986 Isuzu P'up (NA)
1985 Mercedes 300D Turbo
75/25 WVO/D2 for warm weather
50/50 WVO/D2 for cold weather
Uniqueness is a treasure not to be buried. - Laurence Martel
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mobius1:
I use a 5 gal bucket with a float valve (homemade) that is fed by another 5 gal bucket on top of it. The concept of the toilet bowl valve is right - the only probleb is: will it allow a flow rate that is higher than the consumption rate of the burner? and when it is cold, you need even a larger oraface to allow the thicker oil to flow through if you are gonna keep the flow rate high. I think you might get around this with multiple TB valves all feeding the same feed bucket. I have been working on a simple design that would be a high rate simple float valve, but I cant make it work without castings. I'll bet an industrial supply house (McMaster Carr) would have such a weird little item. As far as the level of oil, is just has to be slightly higher than the jet - so you get the whale - blowhole atomization effect. the fuel level over the jet is somewhat important it makes the flame richer (higher) or leaner (lower) and the compressed air is fed through the center leg.


Thanks for the great pics. I'm having a little difficult seeing why the oil doesn't just flow off the plate. is there some form of gasket between the plate and the coffee can? Is the plate more like a saucer (dished down in the center)?
 
Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, jst like a saucer, it has a small depression cut in the top . that pic is of one of the first prototypes that I made for a buddy. The last design is about .25" bigger OD than the coffee can with a lip that the can actually fits down into about 1" - the reason is that one could leak pretty bad, but the new one dosent unless you overfill it badly. I'll try and post a few drawings if I can scan them.
 
Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Next question...

Where did you get the jet? And you casted the saucer? I was think of using an aluminum fry pan. I just don't know where to get a jet.

Thanks for all the info!


Brian

2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Mercedes 300D Turbo
1986 Isuzu P'up (NA)
1985 Mercedes 300D Turbo
75/25 WVO/D2 for warm weather
50/50 WVO/D2 for cold weather
Uniqueness is a treasure not to be buried. - Laurence Martel
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The best source forjets is coleman lantern parts. The one I use is .010" and the outside thread pitch is a little weird, I can get that and a part # for you.You could use a larger jet (theoreticaly) and have a flame 10' tall if you wanted, but .010" is about the smallest that works for me. I cast these in my shop, I cut the profile on a lathe. I think you could get the right pan or metal vessel to work, but it might be easier to get something welded out of .25" steel discs or use a casting. I am in the process of scanning a rough design for a leveler bucket I'll post on here if you guys want. You can make one of these with materials you can get, I'll help you, or I can cast one for you - but I dont really want to be too capitalistic because I've Gotten alot of use from these forums.
 
Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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re: jets
I went to the Coleman site and found the jet for the butane backpack heater, but it doesn't say what the opening size is. And just how high is the flame with the .010" orifice @ 80 psi?

re: aluminum pan
I was thinking I could easily create a slight depression in the center. I really know nothing about casting. Not that I wouldn't like to learn. I just have never done it or seen it done. And I don't have a lathe or welder right now. We relocated here about a year and a half ago. Had to get rid of nearly everything and since I'm a beginning public school teacher with 2 teenage girls (major career change), I really don't have much cash for outfitting my garage yet.

re: capitalism
A reasonable amount of capitalism is good. I might like to buy one of the dishes. Hey, you might be able to start a side business selling these to homebrewers.


Brian

2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Mercedes 300D Turbo
1986 Isuzu P'up (NA)
1985 Mercedes 300D Turbo
75/25 WVO/D2 for warm weather
50/50 WVO/D2 for cold weather
Uniqueness is a treasure not to be buried. - Laurence Martel
 
Location: High Point, NC | Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I am in complete agreement! I would very much like to support Mobius not only captitalistically, but publicly and consciously as well!! This is a great thing you've created! I would definately be interested in purchasing a set up!
 
Location: coming soon to a location near you! | Registered: May 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The flame on the last one I built was about 1' to 18" long depending on how rich or lean you run it. I have alot of pics, but I dont want to eat too much of the Board's space up - 1happyfool mentioned photobucket, let me figure this out and I'll put some on and post a link. I would like to start a side business casting these burners, let me do a little math and I'll come up with a figure if anyone is interested. The jet I used was from an older style (white gas-coleman fuel) pump up coleman lantern, and I threaded a plug to accept it. The plug screws into the center of the dish. I have a few scans of a leveler bucket setup that anyone can make with Home Depot stuff. I am unable to post them here, so I will try photobucket or convert them to another format.
 
Registered: May 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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