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The inner combustion is 11" in diameter. Outer shell is a 16" diameter schedule 40 pipe and the length is about 47" long. The 'fins' welded on the combustion chamber are 2" X 2" and welded on at a 45 degree angle.

I feel pretty safe that no smoke or fire will go up the air intake tube. When the heater is not running and stone cold you can feel the air naturally being sucked down the tube if there is any amount of breeze at all. If its windy you can hear a definite draft. On occassion if there is no wind and the heater is cold, right after I light the heater the smoke will go straight up and out that tube but all you have to do to reverse its direction is give it a puff like you're blowing out candles. Once the heated air is traveling up and out of the chimney it produces a pretty good draft and I imagine it would take alot to reverse the direction of 20 feet or so of really hot air.

I don't know if I explained it very well but that best I can do.
 
Location: Chicagoland | Registered: December 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Glad (and a bit surprised) to hear that you did not find lots of soot in the combustion chamber.

Do you have a exhaust duct flue damper in place in the ductwork to the chimney ? I find that damping down the amount of heat lost going up the chimney increases the heat output from my wood stoves instantly. You can feel the heat output increase even before you turn loose of the damper adjustment. reducing the flue gas flow too much will cause the burner to produce LOTS of smoke/soot so there are limits to this control but using both the flue damper and the combustion air dampers on the wood stoves gives me a great deal of control over burn rate - heat output - smoke produced etc.

I stuck my head inside of a friends similer pot burner heater unit. It uses an 8 inch diameter burner pot (8 inch pipe setting inside of a cast iron skillet) that has a flat plate with holes a few inches off the bottom to retain heat and improve the burn a bit (ala "improved" MAN heater), he is burning waste engine oil in this burner. The combustion air input to this firebox is of the conventional stove damper door type rather than the vertical pipe as in your unit.
The pot burner is an insert inside of a wood burning furnace with about a 2 ft square fire box, the top of the firebox is covered with 2-3 inch long soft "sootcicles" and the vertical walls are covered about a 3/8 inch thick layer of soft soot "velvet". He is in the process of adding a squirl-cage fan tangential forced-air input through the side of
the burner pot to turn it into a turk-style drip fed burner, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

This is heating a 3500 sq ft well-insulated high-bay shop and the simple drip pot burner does not produce enough heat once the temps are in the teens or colder.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Tim c cook:
I stuck my head inside of a friends similer pot burner heater unit. It uses an 8 inch diameter burner pot (8 inch pipe setting inside of a cast iron skillet) that has a flat plate with holes a few inches off the bottom to retain heat and improve the burn a bit (ala "improved" MAN heater), he is burning waste engine oil in this burner. The combustion air input to this firebox is of the conventional stove damper door type rather than the vertical pipe as in your unit.
The pot burner is an insert inside of a wood burning furnace with about a 2 ft square fire box, the top of the firebox is covered with 2-3 inch long soft "sootcicles" and the vertical walls are covered about a 3/8 inch thick layer of soft soot "velvet". He is in the process of adding a squirl-cage fan tangential forced-air input through the side of
the burner pot to turn it into a turk-style drip fed burner, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

This is heating a 3500 sq ft well-insulated high-bay shop and the simple drip pot burner does not produce enough heat once the temps are in the teens or colder.


I know someone who has one of those also. If they ever out-law the burning of WMO, people who use those burners will be the reason why.

You can not burn WMO or any other oil properly with natural ventilation. Oil requires a combustion fan to force in the air. This is one thing I've learned.


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The combustion chamber apears to be step broke to shape is it 10 gauge or much heavier?? the combustion air tube is pipe?? how heavy?? did you tune the burn before welding the air intake solid? tigman


wvo is no longer waste when we harness it's power!!!
 
Location: simms montana | Registered: August 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tim--

I don't have a damper....I was thinking about that as I was designing the heater. I thought that restricting the amount of air coming in would also restrict the amount of air/heat going out. Do you think a damper will make that much of a difference? If so, I think I'll get one and try it out.

tigman--The combustion chamber is 16 ga, the air tube is either 16 ga or 18 ga (I don't remember exactly). I don't understand what you mean when you say 'tune'. I adjust the amount of incoming air for the size of flame I have going.

By your screen name I assume that you TIG weld for a living. PLEASE tell me you're using blue machines!!
 
Location: Chicagoland | Registered: December 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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yes 350 syncrowave.... What I meant was raise or lower fresh air tube for best burn, but maybe that isnt needed?? how high above burn pot? Tigman


wvo is no longer waste when we harness it's power!!!
 
Location: simms montana | Registered: August 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Flue damper -- I would not go without the ones on my stoves, allow at least twice the heat out of the stove or the same heat but only using 1/2 as much wood. I walk past my stoves every few minutes so it is easy to continuously tweek the dampers for best results, with your stove being in the basement you may not get the max results with a fixed setting but I think it would be worth a try. I don't know how the Chinese can do it but my local Menards home improvement store sells the 6 inch cast iron damper assemblies for under $2.00 each.

Installation amounts to drilling a 1/4 inch pivot hole through 2 sides of the pipe so it can easily be removed if no improvement, even easier to just leave it in the pipe, just set it to wide open (damper plate paralell with air flow), the cast iron damper plate is less than 1/8 inch thick so it won't hinder flow in that position.

Murphy -- That is pretty much what I thought also but the stove in this discussion seems to be doing a fair job with WVO ? I hope my local guy has good luck with the turk-burner conversion as the same conversion could be done to the burner pot in this discussions stove, should improve combustion a LOT and would also allow for much more heat output from basicly the same burner.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Looks like I'll be making a trip to Menards to pick up a damper. I probably wont put it in until the next time I shut it down for a cleaning but I will let you know how much of difference it makes.

BTW, the heater is in my garage not the basement.
 
Location: Chicagoland | Registered: December 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just ran across THIS website selling several style of kits for waste oil burners, some interesting ideas that could be adapted concerning drip-fed forced draft burner pots using salvaged vehicle brake drums.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As long as its not burning WMO it wont bother anything. Its not possible to pollute with WVO is it?

Its my understanding that burning WMO is fine so long as its completely burned. Without a draft fan, that can't be done.

I do not like "Pot" burners of any type. I know they heat really good and are easy as heck to make but who wants to clean out the darn pot every few days? What a major pain in the a$$.

Gee_Dubya,
I am very interested to know how long your burner goes before you have to do maintenance..

Damn that is one sweet looking heater!!!


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
quote:
Its not possible to pollute with WVO is it?

Of course veg oil will pollute if it's not burned completely.

quote:
Its my understanding that burning WMO is fine so long as its completely burned.

Burning waste motor oil completely still pukes heavy metals into the air my kids have to breathe.


I guess we should define the word "Pollute".

What does veg oil exhaust into the air that is a pollutant when not burned correctly? Its just veggy oil.. no more pollution than a wood fire right?

I dont consider ash a pollutant.. I consider it a fertilizer.. am I wrong?

I didn't know that a motor oil burner would exhaust a heavy metal if burned correctly.. learn something new every day I guess eh?


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If I feed too much WVO on to the wood fire in my stove it produces lots of SOOT, I think this is simple carbon but it is considered a polutent due to it being a particulate. Same as the smoke from diesel. I have read discussions about producing acreolene when vegoil or fats are not completely burnt but nothing conclusive.

Heavy metals from UMO -- I don't understand this either, where does the heavy metal come from. There may be some iron/steel molecules, this will turn to rust as soon as it hits a water molecule, no problem. There is only a couple of ounces of babit-type metal (mostly tin, small amount of lead) in an engine, used in the rod, cam and crank bearings, This babit is only about 20/000 inch thick and usually lasts the life of the engine, how many oil changes is that and how much extremly tiny amount will end up in the oil. We use tin to coat food handeling equipment and to solder house water pipes so it can't be that dangerous) The babbit is backed by a thin shell of brass, we handle a lot of oxidised brass when cleaning the green slime off of the copper/brass fittings of our processing equipment, no problem yet.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Processes that produce a lot of soot also tend to produce a bunch of other pollutants (this is true of smoky damped-down wood stoves as well as engines as well as ...). Acroleine is one of the offenders if there's not enough oxygen getting to the fire, and there are a bunch of other nasties in there.
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by girl mark:
Processes that produce a lot of soot also tend to produce a bunch of other pollutants (this is true of smoky damped-down wood stoves as well as engines as well as ...). Acroleine is one of the offenders if there's not enough oxygen getting to the fire, and there are a bunch of other nasties in there.


What nasties???????? Where are they coming from??? If you put Waste Veggy Oil in, are you trying to tell me that WVO will produce a new material that never existed inside the WVO to begin with? I don't get it..

Also, (please correct me if I am wrong) but I dont consider bio-degradable particulate matter to be a pollutant since it goes away with the first rain.. Its not like its petro oil.. its just a plant...


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hate it when posts head off in another direction.. The point is that by using a wvo or wmo burner, we are still helping reduce pollution not creating more, either product can end up in a shallow water well or other critical place, by burning it we are at least getting a benefit from it as well as at least reducing the potential pollution, you cant tell me 5 gallons of oil poured on the ground or in our water is less pollution then,1 in a billion people burning that same qty in a stove!! Just my opinion Tigman


wvo is no longer waste when we harness it's power!!!
 
Location: simms montana | Registered: August 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Gee_Dubya:
Ok, it looks like I will have to clean out the burn pot about once a week burning oil at the rate of 7 gallons per day. It is a dirty job but only took about 5 minutes with a screwdriver and a hammer. No sticky goo since I "poured the coals to it" after shut down the oil supply. I used a small 4" fan and gave it plenty of combustion air to burn any sludge that had formed.[QUOTE]

How about using a samurai sword or similar? Smile

[QUOTE]Last night after I cleaned everything up I decided to give my 'inverted cone' burner a try. Basically it uses the entire surface of the liquid oil as the vaporization area so as the oil gets deeper the surface area gets larger and burns hotter.


Can you tell us the difference you observed with the 'inverted cone' burner? Is flame intensity control better? Is it burning with less hard deposits?
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Canolafunola--
The biggest difference I noticed with the inverted cone was that it produced less smoke than my burn pot.

In theory as the oil flow increases, the puddle gets deeper but also larger in surface area. With this increased surface area more burns off so it should self regulate--and it does to some degree. The problem I've noticed is that you still get deposits that form after a few hours around the edge of the oil pool and it grows toward the center of the pool. After time this limits the size of the pool which in turn limits the amount of oil that can vaporize. Another draw back is that since the combustion air is blowing directly on the vaporization surface I've actually had the flame get blown out when it was really windy. I've found that you must restrict the amount of combustion air to prevent such surges of air. It's amazing how much more air gets sucked through the air intake tube when there is a stiff breeze. I've been meaning to pick up a flue damper and install it--I think this will help out as well as improve my effeciency.

I would say that the inverted cone produces the same amount of deposits (I think the oil dictates the amount of deposits) but I think the cone is easier to clean. As the deposits dry out it kind of curles up and almost breaks apart on its own. The deposits in my burn pot get really hard around the edges to the point where you need to bust them out with a hammer and chisel/screwdriver.

The cone must be cleaned every day or two but the burn pot can go 5-6 days if you bust up the big chunks periodically. I have been using a 5' piece of steel conduit and using it as a ram rod to break up the deposits once a day. I slide it down the intake tube and bust it up.
 
Location: Chicagoland | Registered: December 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gee_Dubya,

Can you post a pic of your inverted cone and burn pot? I thought they are one and the same so I am a little confused. If possible , can you take pics of it clean and carboned up. What material did you make it out of? If you used aluminum, I am wondering if it would make it easier to clean if you had it anodized or ceramic coated? Maybe worth a try.
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Just had an idea about the combustion chamber. You welded a lot of fins to add surface area. I wonder how this would work or if practical: After drilling holes all over the perimeter of the combustion chamber (let's use 2" dia as an example), Weld capped off 2" o.d. tubings to the holes. It will provide a lot more surface area as well as better heat tranfer than the fins.
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The tubes would have a tendency to fill with soot and become none effective possibly even become an insulator!! The little fins he welded on also cause turbulence in the air flow round tubes would not have the same effect... The 2 burners he speaks of are also discussed on jouney to forevers site in a article on the men heater, it seems that they had better luck with the inverted burner but they are burning wmo with a much lower flash point.. just my thoughts Tigman


wvo is no longer waste when we harness it's power!!!
 
Location: simms montana | Registered: August 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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