BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel For Heating    Continuous feed turk burner
Page 1 2 

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Continuous feed turk burner
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted
Hi everybody,

I've started working on an idea for a continuous feed for my turk burner. I'm using a v8 engine oil pump driven by a capacitor start blower motor. I plan on using pulleys to reduce the rpm's driving the pump down to 350 or 400. If that still won't turn the pump without a heavy load I will either bleed off some pressure from the supply side or create a cross-over inside the pump.

The pump will have a loop of copper tubing wrapped around the outlet of the burner to circulate hot oil. The pump is mounted in the bottom 1/3 of a 55 gal drum I cut up to use as the tank.

It will also use a 110v water heater element to heat the oil if solid during colder weather. I'm thinking of mounting it in a 2 inch pipe in the suction side of the pump so that oil will be moving past the element at all times.

I made a short video of what I've got so far.

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/308543569009707201...emv?vhost=good-times

Let me know what you think good or bad.
Thanks

Tony


03 VW Golf TDI
85 VW Golf 1.6 NA
02 Dodge Ram CTD
 
Location: WI | Registered: February 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Lots of lookers nobody want's to comment?!

Well I reworked the oil pump into a different configuration.

I saw on another site that a company named Redline sells a nice looking 12v version of what I wanted. So I copied it. There's is packaged much nicer but mine was made with parts I had laying around. Cool I haven't ran oil through it yet but it seems like it will work. I'll let you know. Here's a link to a vid and two pics of what I have.

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/308918979009707201...yhK?vhost=good-times

Tony


03 VW Golf TDI
85 VW Golf 1.6 NA
02 Dodge Ram CTD
 
Location: WI | Registered: February 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The engine oil pump is capable of a lot more capacity than needed by your Turk. If you can regulate the speed of the drive and put out a constant output, I don't see why it wouldn't work.
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
2014 Sponsor

posted Hide Post
I think you're on to something...

That's how it all starts! Cant wait to see it fired up.


www.MurphysMachines.Com
The best Do-it-Yourself Construction Plans on the Internet!
Waste Oil Heating - Biodiesel Systems
Biodiesel Pumps Made In The USA
 
Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bgtony1:
Lots of lookers nobody want's to comment?!

Well I reworked the oil pump into a different configuration.

I saw on another site that a company named Redline sells a nice looking 12v version of what I wanted. So I copied it. There's is packaged much nicer but mine was made with parts I had laying around. Cool I haven't ran oil through it yet but it seems like it will work. I'll let you know. Here's a link to a vid and two pics of what I have.

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/308918979009707201...yhK?vhost=good-times

Tony


I built one my self and scrapped it because...

1) It got too messy since it does not incorporate a shaft seal and leaked out on the floor.
2) It required more hp than what I had (1/2 hp) to pump higher viscocity oil and kept bogging my motor out.

It is a good concept and have use it, but I went to a vane pump instead of the oil gear pump and used a higher hp motor.
 
Location: Norse | Registered: March 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bgtony1:
Well I got a chance to play with my pump today.

I had some difficulty getting a good suction going. It turns out I left too much clearance(endplay) against the pump cover after removing a 1/4 inch from the housing.

I tightened up the clearance and it was better but the new fuel hose I was using as a coupler between the motor and the pump was too soft and kept buckling under the load of the pump.

I have about a 2 inch gap between the pump shaft and motor shaft. Next time I'll make it closer.

To fix this I found a really thick walled hose in one of my many containers of "stuff I'll never use" and stuck a cutoff bolt inside it to make it more sturdy. Worked great!

I rigged up the pump to suck oil(3/8ID)from a cubie and back agian with the output using two 1/4OD copper lines one has a ball valve and the other has no restriction. It wasn't really moving the oil very well. It was mainly airating it. Suction was good but not what I thought it should be.

After a little thought I figured I had a leak on the suction side. Only one place it could be. The weld between the steel coupling and the cast iron housing. I squirted some oil over the fitting while the pump was running and noticed it right away. I'll fix that tomorrow with the TIG torch at work.

I did notice the motor working too hard and the pump isn't even up to snuff yet. I agree with Canolafunola that this pump has way more capacity than I need.

So I'm going to cut the gears down to about 1/4 inch tall overall. Originally they were about 1.25 tall. I can't take any more material off the housing because the threaded bolt bosses that hold the cover on would disappear.

What I'll do is make a new cover that doesn't have the pressure relief in it.(Who needs that!) And take up the added internal space with a custom spacer attached to the new cover.

Seems like alot of work but it'll be worth it if it works. Cool

Hopefully the motor will be a little happier. Cause it won't last long setup like it is now. I'll take pics of the progress.

PS Thanks for the comments guys!

Tony


03 VW Golf TDI
85 VW Golf 1.6 NA
02 Dodge Ram CTD
 
Location: WI | Registered: February 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I was busy tonight. I've almost got it finished. I just have to finish the new pump cover and spacer. The gears have been cut down to .400 inch from the original 1.25 inches tall. The rest of the burner is now remounted to the top of my fuel tank (1/3 of a 55gal barrel). Here's a link to some new pics.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562469882cswBRR?vhost=good-times

Tony


03 VW Golf TDI
85 VW Golf 1.6 NA
02 Dodge Ram CTD
 
Location: WI | Registered: February 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
Just a little info on the chev oil pump. The suction side opening can be tapped with a 1/2 inch pipe tap and an adapter plate eith a 1/2 inch nipple can be bolted to the discharge, then tap the bottom side of the factory pump mounting hole with a 3/8 inch pipe tap and plug it. I direct coupled to a 1/3 hp motor and installed 3/4 inch hoses on both intake and discharge. this is what I use to collect oil, some places have an outlet I can plug into, other places I use my gas generator [I had that before I started makeing BD]. ps ; a camloc on the intake hose at the pump makes it easy to remove an ocasional fry or other junk. Make a shield over the pump drive, like somebody mentioned earlier the pump does not have a seal on the driven shaft.
 
Registered: July 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
nice work.

what do you heat w/ that contraption?

One could mount the pump in the sump, (barrel) and only have to fab the output. mount motor vertically over the barrel, and have a long driveshaft.


Be the change you hope to find in this world.-Gandhi

 
Location: location, location... | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I, too look forward to pictures and/or video of the thing in action. Looks nice.

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be simpler, easier, and cheaper to have a bird waterer type gravity feed system into it? If you keep the feed tube small and the fuel tank rigid, and the oil fluid, I would think you could have a fairly well regulated flow (no experience on it; this is based on observation of simple watering devices for animals) and therefore keep a pretty constant oil level in your burner.


Two tank system on an '89 F250
Working on an 81 Chevy Chevette
Attempting to resurrect a rusted out 85 Ford Tempo
 
Location: Alaska | Registered: April 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wvoalaska:

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be simpler, easier, and cheaper to have a bird waterer type gravity feed system into it? ..
Could you please post a link to a thread or something somewhere that describes this "bird waterer, gravity fed thinga majigy" system.

Thanks in advance


_________________________
If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi all,

I got it running! It's got about 4hrs of total run time on it so far and no failures. At first I had a leak at almost every joint. I figured I didn't need pipe tape at the brass connections.(wrong) I fixed those but the pump leaks around the input shaft. I was worried it would. It's not spraying out but it left a good mess on my driveway. I'll worry about that later.

At first the pump makes alot of noise. It's mainly from vibration because of the way I have the tubing routed. It's not mounted to anything so it vibrates pretty good. It's been about 35-40 degrees during the day here so my WVO is pretty gloppy when the burner first starts. After about 20 min of running the oil is luke warm to the touch and the unit is fairly quiet.

Overall I'm happy with it. But the pump still has more capacity than I need. The 1/3hp motor is still working harder than I expected. I don't think it will last without changing the load on it. I think I'll take another 1/4 inch off the gears and add a steel shim to the top of my aluminum spacer I made. I doubt the alum would wear well anyway.

The burner needs some changes too. It's not burning anywhere near the intensity I got out of it when I first built it. I think it has to do with too much air creating too much turbulance which is causing the burn pot to cool lowering the the amount of oil vapors available to burn. This may not be what's happening but it makes sense to me. Almost every change I've made to the burner itself since the original has added air to it. I've lost the balance I had between air/fuel. I thought heating the oil would help. Not in this case.

I set my old 3 inch inlet pipe (from the previous setup) loosely on top the outlet of the burner while it was running and immediately noticed a reduction in smoke. It turned cherry pretty quick but also the tube I'm using for the burnpot also got cherry about halfway down inside towards the oil. This resulted in a clean burn but soot built up around the air inlets inside the pot. I can't seem to stop this. I know why it happens but I can't get that area hot enough. If you look at the video of my first configuration. You can hear the intensity. After it really got going it started pulsing. That setup barely left a crumb in the pot after it used all the oil. I need to go back in that direction!


Mobetta,

Thanks for the kind words. I hope to use it to heat my 25ft pool this summer. My first design of this had the pump in the tank. Great minds think alike! I changed it after seeing the Redline pump in post on Altfuel. I was worried the motor I have wouldn't last if the shaft was run vertically.

Wvoalaska,

Thanks. I'm not sure what type you mean but I also thought of gravity feed. That may be another option.

I'll be playing with it today. Sorry about the length. Here some new pics and cruddy night time video.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562939746WEtlqR?vhost=good-times


Tony


03 VW Golf TDI
85 VW Golf 1.6 NA
02 Dodge Ram CTD
 
Location: WI | Registered: February 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Anyone ever try and vaporize Glycerol .

There may be an easier way to burn it if you can inject warm glycerol into a screaming hot Inconel gas generator tube something like a Coleman Stove does with kerosene.
 
Registered: September 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
A Turk burner vaporizes glycerol, actually. I think JohnO set up his Turk with some metal scrap sticking out of the middle of the pool, so as to increase the amount of heat being transferred down to the liquid (from the burning gases above) so as to help with this vaporization. I'm not sure where his photos are but I think there were once some posted here.
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wvoalaska:
I, too look forward to pictures and/or video of the thing in action. Looks nice.

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't it be simpler, easier, and cheaper to have a bird waterer type gravity feed system into it? If you keep the feed tube small and the fuel tank rigid, and the oil fluid, I would think you could have a fairly well regulated flow (no experience on it; this is based on observation of simple watering devices for animals) and therefore keep a pretty constant oil level in your burner.


That's what I'm planning on experimenting with. I was actually wondering if it's possible to set up a 55 gallon 'bird waterer'.

Coach GEO- a bird waterer is the type of thing you use to get water to chickens- looks like a bucket that's inverted over a large pie plate, and the water doesn't all run out of the pie plate due to the vacuum or something like that. Sorry I'm not better at explaining how it works, I'm sure there's an explanation online somewhere. You can see a chicken waterer at tractor supply co's website.
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I've been looking at the turk burner and does work.

But consider for second the possible improvement in combustion if the fuel was fully vaporised or cracked and mixed with air before combustion started.
 
Registered: September 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
But that's what it does, in my opinion.

I haven't done any emissions testing of the burner, though, and I wish I had access to a way to do that so as to test my opinions of this device.
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Sorry for not responding sooner. A bird waterer is what Girl Mark described. Basically, you have the only opening in a tank at the level that you want your fuel --this opening can be at the end of a vertical section of pipe. The tank must be above the level of the hole. The tank will only empty if the fuel is displaced by air. If the only way the air can get in is through the one hole and that hole is at the level you want your fuel, as soon as the fuel level goes below that level, it will allow air into the tank and some fuel will drip out.

It's extremely simple, cheap, and effective. The only thing is that it does not keep the level exactly constant --there will be some variation in fuel level in your burner bowl. The trick would be to get it to an acceptible minimum variation.

Sorry, I don't have any pictures I can refer you to right now.


Two tank system on an '89 F250
Working on an 81 Chevy Chevette
Attempting to resurrect a rusted out 85 Ford Tempo
 
Location: Alaska | Registered: April 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
GM, et al: I can't find the pictures, either. I'll post them if they reappear. The "clutter" (technical term for fire retaining thingys in a fire test chamber) in my Turk Burner are 4 pieces of angle iron, standing on end, grouped around the center of the burner. They're oriented to allow the swirling air to easily enter from the sides, so they are completely immersed in the hot part of the flame. I would recommend trying this with pieces of flat stock, and weld them to a small plate that can be set in your Turk Burner. They conduct heat from the flame down to the oil pool. They glow read hot when the fire is high, but cool down below incandescence if the fuel flow is turned down "low". They worked to stabilize low flames, so the Turk was throttleable.

Be cautious using a large tank like a chicken-waterer - oil expands a surprising amount when heated, potentially leading to a runaway fuel flow. The expansion will also change the density, causing floats (as in float valves) to sink lower in warm oil than in cold. Most "Turk Burner" folks already know that warm oil runs through a needle valve faster than cold oil. These things make Turk Burners difficult to easily regulate, since they all work to increase fuel flow when hot, which is the reverse of what we want in a control loop.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA | Registered: August 15, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
I'm slowly getting my digital life under control (I can now cautiously say that I love my computer again)- and I swear I'm going to do a Turk Burner development site sometime in the next few months. If you find those photos please post on this thread and in biodieselpictures.com.

My damned theoretical Turk Burner site still needs a spiffy name (I think there's a thread in the heating forum about this).

Anyone?
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel For Heating    Continuous feed turk burner

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014