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I Need Some Help With My Fuel Oil Furance
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quote:

I use a 5 gallon laquer thinner can for my fuel tank. I'm thinking about putting a hot plate under it and tryint to run B-100 again. What do you think about that?

I don't know about a hot plate, but heat would be good.

quote:
Do you think heating the BD will help to thin it out?
Wayne

Assuming Biodiesel has the same specific heat capacity as diesel/kerosene it only makes sense. That you would need to heat the biodiesel up by the difference between their ignition points. In English this time, Specific Heat Capacity is the number of BTU's required to raise one pound of the liquid by 1 degree F divided by the amount of energy needed to raise one pound of water by one degree F. Water is, by definition, 1. Oil/diesel/kerosene are all about .5. Biodiesel should be about the same. I think I am tired and am rambling. I don't think the stuff above has anything to do with this, but I'm going to leave it there anyway. Smile

I think what I am trying to say is that the flash point for diesel is 140 deg F. The flash point for biodiesel is typically 300 deg F. If you normally heat diesel to 140 deg F to get it to vaporize and burn then you would need to heat biodiesel to 300 deg F to get it to vaporize and burn. If the fuel going into one of these stoves is usually 50 deg F before it hits the vaporizor section then you would need to heat the biodiesel to 210 deg F before it hits the vaporizor section. That is making the assumption that the vaporizor section could add the additional 90 degrees needed to get to 300 deg F.
The biggest problem I see right now is running on a mixture of bio and Diesel. Will the Dino vaporize in the tubing before it ever gets to the vaporizor section? Do you need two different delivery tubes/systems?

Maybe running the lower section as is with a blend of biodiesel and kerosene. Put a heavy plate directly above the flames and then have WVO drip (Mother Earth Heater style) directly onto the plate.

I bet I am way over thinking this. I bet if we just heat a tank of biodiesel to 100 or 130 F and then feed it to the heater it will work great. At least I hope so.

I would really love to get mine working on as much filtered WVO as I can and save the biodiesel other uses. Especially if I can use the Grill Grease in the heater and use the Fryer Oil in the biodiesel!

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post
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I don't know about the other heaters but mind has no vaporizor that you speak of. The fuel is gravity fead into the valve witch gravity feeds the fuel through a tube directly into the pot.

There's no gun, or pump involved. There's a blower that somehow feeds into the combustion area. When you sneak the access door open a little you can see flame being blown out of the small holes in the side of the pot. Without the fan it's just a puddle of fuel in the pot that is on fire. The valve has floats in it to ration the fuel input to the valve and the output to the pot in the heater. That's it. That's all there is to it.

Your right about using a mix. You probably wouldn't want to heat a mix of PD and BD because of the difference in flash points.

But I'm talking about trying to run pure BD in it.

So you think that the pure BD needs to be heated to between 100 and 130 degrees F it'll burn?

I did an experiement with my hot plate last night. I put about a quart of BD in a pan and turn the hot plan on to it's lowest setting. It maintained a temp of about 110 if I remember correctly. That would be perfect if it were able to maintain that temp on a 5 gallon can full of BD. It probably could but would take hours to get that much fuel to that temp.

Boy do I wish I had a regular electric range in my workshop.

I think I'll mess with it tomorrow with 1 gallon of BD on the hotplate and see what happens.

I can tell you that cold BD barely burns. I got the heater running good and hot with kerosine and added, after the kero was gone from the fuel tank, 2 quarts of BD.

The result, the fire pretty much went out. I opened the door and it was barely smoldering.

So I added about a gallon of PD, soaked a ran in Kerosine and tossed it into the fire. It fired back up good and work and ran for about 4 hours till it ran out.

This thing is already in need for a pot cleaning. I can't believe the amount of carbon build up running a mix of BD and PD and some Kerosine.

Anyway, even if it'll only run on a 50/50 mix of PD and BD, I'm happy. I've actually got heat in my basement and don't have to do my BD processing with a salamander running!

Life is good!

Wayne


Very funny Scottie, now beam down my clothes.
 
Location: Dansville Michigan Near Lansing | Registered: September 17, 2005Report This Post
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Life was good and didn't need to be fiddled with but I fiddled with it anyway and now life is better than good.

Who does that sound like?

Wayne


Very funny Scottie, now beam down my clothes.
 
Location: Dansville Michigan Near Lansing | Registered: September 17, 2005Report This Post
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As my heater has not arrived yet, I really have no personal experience to speak from.

Modified Mother Earth Heater at JTF

Since they have set up camp to stay in Japan they have been doing some good work on making their new perment home more liveable. There are possibly some good ideas here about how to preheat the fuel. I'm a little concerned about over heating it, though. I'll probably monitor the temps just before it goes into the heater (after it has picked up heat from a location yet to be determined.) Then I will adjust the insulation between the heater stack and the fuel tubing to try to get the right temperature going into the heater.

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post
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concerns with burning used motor oil.
There are also some comments on the site about burning used motor oil and how the oil burns much hotter now because of the additive package in the newer motor oils available.
Last year I attended a 3 day training session on industrial hydraulic and oil filtration. One bit of information that I learned that you may find interesting is that most cars/trucks use 30 micron oil filters for a very good reason. It turns out that if you filter motor oil to less than 30 microns you start stripping out the additives! This may work for those people who actually want to strip out the additives to use the oil as a fuel. Run the oil through an inexpensive 30 micron filter to get rid of the larger particles, then filter it to as low as you can afford to strip out the additive package. This will allow the motor oil to burn cleanly at a lower temperature.

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post
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I've even considered installing an electric ignition heater in the bottom of the burner "pot". I had in mind to use the kind that are found in kerosene burning heaters. They get hot enough to directly ignite the kerosene without flame or spark, and are intended to sit in the flame without burning out. That might be a keay way to get one to work on SVO - electrically heat it. The electricity needed would be trivial, compared to the amount of heat produced.
 
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA | Registered: August 15, 2001Report This Post



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ALRIGHT!! My surplus army heater is installed in my fireplace and running on a blend of something like 60/40 bio/kero. I have the tank installed outside of my house about 4-5 feet above the heater. I removed my gas logs and used the 1/2 inch steel natural gas line as my biodiesel fuel line for the army heater. I took a 25 ft spool of 1/4 inch copper line and wrapped most of it around the stack. A couple of feet, maybe 4 total, are used up going from the wall to the stack and from the stack to the regulator. That preheats the fuel. It burns GREAT! Once I figure out a way to preheat the tank to keep 100% biodiesel from turning to gel I will have a permenent tank installed. I'm thinking about heat trace and insulation on the fuel supply line. That will try to keep it above 50 deg F (at least that is when the thermostat turns the heat trace on.) I'm also thinking about wraping the tank with heat trace. I would like to put a heat exchanger under the tank and tubing down and back to the fireplace. That would allow natural circulation to kick in and heat the bottom of the tank without using a pump or controls. Maybe run another line to and from the fireplace from the tank. That would let the biodiesel circulate using the same principle. (If it ever goes to gel it would be impossible to get it into natural circulation, though.) Problems for later.

Next I want to install a tank in the fireplace next to the flange I put over the damper. I would like to be able to start on biodiesel and let the rising heat get some grill grease (hamburger fat and the like)nice and hot. Once they are hot I would like to switch it over to grill grease. It sure would be a nice way to use up stuff that make terrible winter biodiesel. (OK, summer only biodiesel.)

-Jim
(I removed the silver plate from the front and gave it all a quick coat of flat black. It blends right into the fireplace.)


www dot FryerPower dot com
1987 300DT (The sedan, not the wagon.) Some modifications to the fuel system.
1995 S350D Unmodified fuel system.
I plead the 5th.


Image79_1.jpg (21 Kb, 42 downloads)
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post
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Since we're so busy making new forums this week, how do you guys feel about adding a bio-heat forum? for heating applications? I'd love to archive the Turk/Babington stuff somewhere, and all the salamender/Home heating oil furnace stuff too.

Mark
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Report This Post
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Sounds good to me.
Maybe even put sub folders for salamander/torpedo/construction, Turk, Babbington, Mother Earth type gravity fed, and level regulated vaporizing. Then there is the forced air types that are covered by the Altfurncace group on Yahoo.
OK, maybe there are too many subfolders. Ideas?

-Jim


www dot FryerPower dot com
1987 300DT (The sedan, not the wagon.) Some modifications to the fuel system.
1995 S350D Unmodified fuel system.
I plead the 5th.
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post
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Originally posted by Jim D:
Sounds good to me.
Maybe even put sub folders for salamander/torpedo/construction, Turk, Babbington, Mother Earth type gravity fed, and level regulated vaporizing. Then there is the forced air types that are covered by the Altfurncace group on Yahoo.
OK, maybe there are too many subfolders. Ideas?

-Jim


we can't really do subfolders, but if enough info accumulates we can either do stickies that point people where to go (ie with a title like 'Attention- for salamander FAQ look here"), or something like a web page elsewhere (Biodieselcommunity.org?) similar to Rick's
'best of the forums' page on b100supply.com .

Jim, do you have the 9 pound boxes of Magnesol back in stock yet? I'd like to play around with it.

thanks,
Mark
 
Location: Pittsboro, North Carolina | Registered: March 07, 2001Report This Post
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The bioheat suggestion from Mark.
-I think it's a great idea!
-Graydon




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Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Report This Post
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Thanks for the reminder. I finished my overdue classes the night before last. I'll put them back up on the website.
Now I'm getting caught back up on my current classes and refinishing my resume.
-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post



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Originally posted by girl mark:
Jim, do you have the 9 pound boxes of Magnesol back in stock yet? I'd like to play around with it.

thanks,
Mark


Hey Mark,

I thought you might be interested in this. I was at WalMart this morning and found something I could use. Going into WalMart is kind of like a Zen experience. You rarely ever come out with what you went in there looking for but you almost always come out with something you needed anyway. (Kind of like Zen driving as described in The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul, Douglas Adams, 'I get behind someone who looks like they know where they are going. I never end up where I intended, but I always end up somewhere I needed to be.' Or something like that.)

Warning! Shameless promotion below!

In my never-ending quest to drive down costs and lower prices I found a new way to repackage. The local WalMart bakery goes through several 5-gallon buckets of frosting each week. They sell their lightly used buckets for a buck each, with lids. This is a good bit less than what I pay for boxes and that nice open top on the bucket makes it easier to repackage. In addition you get a nice HDPE-2 5-gallon bucket, with lid, instead of another cardboard box to throw away.

http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page1.html

-Jim


www dot FryerPower dot com
1987 300DT (The sedan, not the wagon.) Some modifications to the fuel system.
1995 S350D Unmodified fuel system.
I plead the 5th.
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Report This Post
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One bit of information that I learned that you may find interesting is that most cars/trucks use 30 micron oil filters for a very good reason. It turns out that if you filter motor oil to less than 30 microns you start stripping out the additives!


Sorry, not true. I use a dual by-pass filter assembly on my Suburban that filters down to 1/10 micron. By-pass filter The real reason the off the shelf filters only filter to 25-40 microns is so they don't plug up and send all the oil through the internal by-pass valve.

I like that Mother Earth heater, I think I might build me one to heat my BioBuilding next winter.
 
Location: Concord, NC | Registered: October 02, 2005Report This Post
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Dito Graydon on Mark's idea.



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- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Report This Post
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