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steam enhanced burn?
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Saw this on Burnveg and thought it was very interesting. Seems no one else did though LOL cause it mustered no responces.

What is ya'lls thoughts.

quote:
This setup (Burner bowl type drip fed) reminds me of a description I read in a U.S. military survival manual in the 1960s. It said to arrange a small metal dish where it could be heated red hot in a fire, and make two metal tubes or channels, one to drip oil and one to drip water, onto the red-hot metal. The water helps the oil to vaporize because water expands about 1600 times when it turns to steam.
A friend and I tried this in a fireplace; we made channels out of some tin cans. Each drop of water exploded into steam when it hit the metal. Pretty soon we had to stop because it got so hot we couldn't stay near it. ....
Steve


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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have read a couple other posts about dripping water in burners but they also didn't draw comments. I suspect it does help with combustion, passinger carrying hobby steam boilers use steam as the "air" for there syphon nozzles in the burners, the hot dry steam works both to vaporize and spray the fuel oil.

I suspect the idea won't work well in a drip fed heater because of the cooling effect of the water vaporization, it takes a lot of heat to flash vaporize water into steam, this would likely cool the burner surface so much it would not vaporize oil well?
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ethanol burners are reputed to actually work BETTER is a certain amount of water is included in the fuel mix. The premise is that the water will turn to steam and aid the combustion of the fuel. Dunno what the numbers would be with veggie though.
Ethanol / Water Stove info



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Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim c cook:
...I suspect the idea won't work well in a drip fed heater because of the cooling effect of the water vaporization, it takes a lot of heat to flash vaporize water into steam, this would likely cool the burner surface so much it would not vaporize oil well?
Good point. In the project described in the post the burner pan was heated by burning embers below it so this would keep it hot. So you would almost need a dual fuel. Say propane burner under the plate (or electric) and dripped onto that


_________________________
If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have been working on an off grid babington using steam. Steam is a great helper for burners in several ways. I have made lots of outside tests with several types of burners including the Water drip, Steam Turk, and my favorite the Steam Babington.

for some videos see:
Steam Waste Oil Burner Experiment.
Pressure relief and check valve required along with caution, this burner is very potent!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugAivXAusus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfmY-kuhhpc

Lighting the Zero electricity Burner / Steam Generator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCgXjY3hbw

Details explained for the Waste oil Lift pump that feeds the Steam Babington Burner. Air or Propane drives the lift pump and Burner, then once hot enough the Steam the burner generates can run everything without any electrical requirement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1asAWAowbQA

I have also been working on a burner for use in a corn or wood pellet stove to heat the house. I have lots of videos on my YouTube page.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jommy99

The latest version of this burner also uses low pressure steam to assist the burn and keep the burner clean of ash / crusty buildup.
http://jommy99.webs.com/

Best Regards
John Moore
 
Location: NH USA | Registered: January 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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much thanx John. Why use anything to lift the oil. Just mount oil high enough to drip down. Steam would only then be for pressure to automize the oil for ignition


_________________________
If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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typically with a Babington burner, some of the oil is not atomized, but runs off the Babington ball to the oil reservoir. Only part of the oil film on the ball goes over the steam or air hole or holes. To get the oil back up over the ball the oil needs to be lifted from the reservoir.

You are correct about just gravity feeding the oil to the ball would work, and even letting some excess oil into the burn tube would be ok, as it would vaporize and burn there. It is still a good idea to have a constant level of oil in the oil supply so it will not flow slower and slower as the level drops. Too much oil flowing into the burn tube could be dangerous and or cause a rich smoky burn.

The steam lift actually works well and sice we are making steam for the burner why not use it. An added benifit, the steam also tends to keep the oil in the resivoir nice and warm even when it is operating in the cold.

John Moore
 
Location: NH USA | Registered: January 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, in your pellet stove setup how is the oil added to the fire? I clearly understand all the outside apparatus but what is inside? Why the sideways U of 3/4 pipe?
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The pipe burner has been evolving, a sideways U is not really required for use in a pellet stove. Outside of an enclosed hot fire box the sideways U is more important.

How the burner works is by vapoization of the oil, since the only way to get a clean burn is with very small droplets or a oil mist in air. Vaporization uses heat from the surroundings to heat the pipe, boil and vaporize the oil into a mist in air. It then is much like a gas, it escapes the burner slot and burns nicely.

With the side was U the feed oil first is fed to the upper part of the U. When the gasified oil escapes the slot on the botom sloted part of the U and burns the flame rises up onto the pipe above and heats it. The flame creates the heat to vaporize the oil behind and above it.

This is actually over kill in such a hot stove and it is a bit harder to clean too. The latest configuration for a corn or pellet stove is simpler. The heat from pellets burning below start the vaporization, then the firebox stays very hot and keeps the burner working. You will see the U missing in the most recent photos of the 1 1/4" pipe burner.

Best Regards
John Moore
 
Location: NH USA | Registered: January 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim c cook:
...I suspect the idea won't work well in a drip fed heater because of the cooling effect of the water vaporization, it takes a lot of heat to flash vaporize water into steam, this would likely cool the burner surface so much it would not vaporize oil well?
Good point. In the project described in the post the burner pan was heated by burning embers below it so this would keep it hot. So you would almost need a dual fuel. Say propane burner under the plate (or electric) and dripped onto that



You know guys, an oil vapourizing burner can likely be modified to accept water drip heat transfer enhancement by adding a second drip tray somewhat above the oil vapour plate. That way, you just get the oil pl;ate screaming hot with a propane torch, open the oil feed valve, adjust oil flow with air flow to get a hot/clean flame, then open the water feed valve & adjust water feed so that it doesn't smother the oil flames with excessive steam in the firepot.

To be honest, unless the heat output is meat to transfer the heat to the target through a second medium (oil or antifreeze filled boiler etc), then I would be afraid that the excess steam would eventually cause water dammage to wooden building materials, not to mentionaffeting air quality by feeding water to mold/mildew.

If the heat output from the firebox were exhausted out a regular chimney, it might be okay though, since the steam wouldn't be able to fill the living/working quarters of someones house/workshop.

I think that in a boiler application, adding steam to the firebox heat output might significantly enhance heat energy transfer into the intermediary medium, thereby increasing overall system efficiency.
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by John Moore:
The pipe burner has been evolving, a sideways U is not really required for use in a pellet stove. Outside of an enclosed hot fire box the sideways U is more important.

How the burner works is by vapoization of the oil, since the only way to get a clean burn is with very small droplets or a oil mist in air. Vaporization uses heat from the surroundings to heat the pipe, boil and vaporize the oil into a mist in air. It then is much like a gas, it escapes the burner slot and burns nicely.

With the side was U the feed oil first is fed to the upper part of the U. When the gasified oil escapes the slot on the botom sloted part of the U and burns the flame rises up onto the pipe above and heats it. The flame creates the heat to vaporize the oil behind and above it.

This is actually over kill in such a hot stove and it is a bit harder to clean too. The latest configuration for a corn or pellet stove is simpler. The heat from pellets burning below start the vaporization, then the firebox stays very hot and keeps the burner working. You will see the U missing in the most recent photos of the 1 1/4" pipe burner.

Best Regards
John Moore


Cool, Thanks John.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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