I have found that I can pretty well tell the quality of a welder by how close there face is to the welding arc, if it is not within a foot of the welding arc (or flame) they simply can not make quality welds, don't care what type of eyesight they have. The first welding question I ask folks is "what are you looking at while welding", not surprisingly they usually can't say just what they are looking at, as far as I am concerned there is ONLY ONE correct answer and it applies to ALL type of welding (well - maybe not sub-arc) If you don't know the correct answer you will never become a competent welder no matter how much practice you do. Once you know the correct answer you can then BECOME a welder, with practice.

Getting actual welding training will then allow you to use all the verious techniques like put-n-take, weive welding, etc to handle all the wierd situations you will likely run in to - like - multiple passes on thick metal, wide cracks between edges, thin metal welded to thick metal, high-carbon steel, cast iron etc. Depends on what welding process you are using for some of this, I like stick welding for general steel welding as it offers the largest selection of veriables because of all the different types of welding rod available. Stick is not the best for thin material aluminum, Mig is probably the best inexpensive equipment for these and general steel welding, Tig is the ultimate for about anything.

Oh Yah -- A hand-held angle grinder is definatly a welders best friend-- An auto-darkening helmet is a close second.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim c cook:
I have found that I can pretty well tell the quality of a welder by how close there face is to the welding arc, if it is not within a foot of the welding arc (or flame) they simply can not make quality welds, don't care what type of eyesight they have. The first welding question I ask folks is "what are you looking at while welding", not surprisingly they usually can't say just what they are looking at, as far as I am concerned there is ONLY ONE correct answer and it applies to ALL type of welding (well - maybe not sub-arc) If you don't know the correct answer you will never become a competent welder no matter how much practice you do. Once you know the correct answer you can then BECOME a welder, with practice.

Getting actual welding training will then allow you to use all the verious techniques to handle all the wierd situations you will likely run in to - like - multiple passes on thick metal, wide cracks between edges, thin metal welded to thick metal, high-carbon steel, cast iron etc.

Oh Yah -- A hand-held angle grinder is definatly a welders best friend--

That's kind of a mis-leading question Tim. Its like asking "When you drive down the road, what are you looking at?" I look at everything!

It also depends on if you are pushing or pulling the weld. Most times, I am pushing.. I always push if I can.. For large gaps, you have to pull the weld.. For vertical corners, the weld just sort of falls with gravity. Welding upside down is yet another story.

Welding is actually allot like driving. (sort of).

And oh ya.. My face is always about 8 to 10 inches from the object.. (bar any obsticals my head and mask wont fit through)

NOT TRUE in my book, be AWARE of everything but you should only be concentrating on one tiny spot, doesn't matter if welding up - down - or even (or especially) overhead. You need to think much more basic, the answer is so basic that welders do this without thinking but if you don't learn this one basic thing you can not make good welds. think VERY basic.. Just what are we trying to do when welding ?

I think every welding instructer has his own names for the verious techniques but once they are demenstrated it becomes clear where what technique works for what.

You must be refering to the little pool at the end of the arc and how it coagulates with the part you're welding.

I've done so much welding its like driving to me..

BINGO -- You HAVE to watch that molton pool of metal, that is absolutely where the action is, once you begin concentrating on how that molton pool is reacting you can take control of the welding process and do whatever is necessary to keep that pool fusing the metal together...

This is so basic that experianced welders don't even realize they are doing it but new folks just don't realize where they need to concentrate.

By watching the molton pool you know if you need to back up and add more metal, shift slightly sideways, move faster or slower, weive up/down between the pieces etc, it is the key to welding.

I have seen folks go from being "gommers" to actually running good beads in less than 5 minutes once this was explained.

Like I said -- there is ONLY ONE correct answer to this question but it is SO basic that I have seen instructers that never ever explained it, caused a lot of students unnecessary grief..

For anyone interested, the plans for the heater are complete.

$50
contact me for details.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim c cook:
BINGO -- You HAVE to watch that molton pool of metal, that is absolutely where the action is, once you begin concentrating on how that molton pool is reacting you can take control of the welding process and do whatever is necessary to keep that pool fusing the metal together...
This is so basic that experianced welders don't even realize they are doing it but new folks just don't realize where they need to concentrate.
By watching the molton pool you know if you need to back up and add more metal, shift slightly sideways, move faster or slower, weive up/down between the pieces etc, it is the key to welding.

Tim,

I welded (kinda) for years and in '74 I went to a "plastic welding" school sponsored by the millwright union. Plastic welding process is hot air bonding, no eye shading required. We got to see the actual bond and how the base and filler material moved toward destination and from source.

I went from "might not be very strong - but sure is ugly" to "not too bad looking and usually tests OK".

Bob

I wanted to get into that..

Those liester welder guns are expensive.

I patched a poly tank once with supervision from an experienced welder..

It was not that hard.. Kinda neat really..

anyone buy a set of plans yet?

I kind of want a set but hate to go first.

quote:

Originally posted by Hades12:
anyone buy a set of plans yet?

I kind of want a set but hate to go first.

I just received my plans and everything looks clear and to the point, it's looks so good I think a caveman could do it.

I've been interested in Babington heaters, Turk burners, Mother Earth News heaters and such. It seems none of them are safe for operating unattended... even for a moment. How is yours? Do you feel safe going into the house for an hour while your burner keeps on heating the shop?

I like the idea of scrounging for parts. But, do you have a shopping list and are the individual components available somewhere?

I have a feeling I'll be sending you some moola soon. Great work!

Todd

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd T:
I've been interested in Babington heaters, Turk burners, Mother Earth News heaters and such. It seems none of them are safe for operating unattended... even for a moment. How is yours? Do you feel safe going into the house for an hour while your burner keeps on heating the shop?

I like the idea of scrounging for parts. But, do you have a shopping list and are the individual components available somewhere?

I have a feeling I'll be sending you some moola soon. Great work![QUOTE]

Since I got my plans I have been studying this thing, I doesnt take much study to see that it is very safe for several reasons, I have also looked at all the different heater designs and found them wanting for one reason or another, but I am quite excited to get going on this one.

My heater has no outside hot surfaces other than the stack. Unlike a wood stove, radiant heat will not catch nearby objects on fire. (with the exception of the stack of course)

The heater operates with a positive pressure combustion chamber residing inside a positive pressure circulation housing. This type of design should assure that any leaks in the heat exchanger will force room air out the exhaust stack instead of exhaust gasses into room air. Of course I have not tested this but its a pretty simple design. IE: Big fan outside creates more static pressure and volume than little fan inside.

As for walking away. I walk away all the time. The worst thing that happened is the tank ran out of fuel (waste motor oil) and poured black smoke out the chimney for about a minute. It wasn't even heavy black smoke..

When I first built the unit, I did my version of an explosion test just to see how likely it was to happen. It was a concern. I heated up the unit to operating temperature and removed the air source temporarily to kill the fire. With a nice hot combustion chamber, I plugged the air back in and let it pour hot vaporizing motor oil fog into the combustion chamber.
I then lit the unit.
It had a small "poof" to it, and fired right up a little more aggressively then normal. It smoked for about 20 seconds while it burned out the oily residue, and then leaned out to a normal burn. Keep in mind the combustion chamber was a pressure vessel in another life.

Even so, the plans clearly state in case of a flame-out, you should run the combustion fan for a minimum of 30 seconds before attempting to re-ignite. That is standard operating procedure for any type of combustion heating device.

Another issue would be the circulation fan on top of the unit. If you walk away and that fan was to stop running, it could cause a problem.
I'm not sure what would happen. The burner would sure heat up that combustion chamber. Probably make it glow bright red. It would probably burn off any paint on the outside 55 gallon drum.

Hooking up a safety control to the air circulating fan would be just an air solenoid valve and air proving switch. Air proving switches come with power vent units.. If the fan died, so would the compressed air source and the flame goes out.

As for open flame and sparks.. unlike a wood stove or other type heaters, the combustion takes place inside a burn tube within a chamber, leading to another chamber. While technically possible, I don't think a "spark" or "lick of flame" would ever make it out of the unit unless there was a burn through of the combustion chamber wall.

So, long story short, I leave the unit running all the time. I start it up in the AM, check fuel, shut it down when I go home. I leave the shop for hours at a time and don't pay much attention to it. If I'm burning gooey black thick motor oil, I do check the burn tube for gunk build up in the AM.

The plans come complete with step by step instructions, a materials list with a picture of each item, and alternative suggestions for obtaining each item.

The instructions include 3D colored cad diagrams, labeled drawings, labeled photos and step by step directions to make each part.

However, if you are not proficient with a welder, or know nothing about cutting and grinding steel shapes, this project is not for you.

Got an email? I can send you a cheap-o flyer/advertisement I made up for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd T:
I've been interested in Babington heaters, Turk burners, Mother Earth News heaters and such. It seems none of them are safe for operating unattended... even for a moment. How is yours? Do you feel safe going into the house for an hour while your burner keeps on heating the shop?

I like the idea of scrounging for parts. But, do you have a shopping list and are the individual components available somewhere?

I have a feeling I'll be sending you some moola soon. Great work!

Todd

Murphy's plans are ready.....

You can check out more on them (including the link to purchase them) here:
http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/wasteoilheaterplans.php

He's been hard at work getting these ready and I've been hard at work getting the purchase page up.

Enjoy!
-Graydon

Fabricator used the plans to create a heater as well and took some awesome video of it in action.

Hit the page for the plans and you can watch the incredible video he took:
http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/wasteoilheaterplans.php

-Graydon

I just got Murphy's heater plans.

They are excellent!!! And worth every penny!!

I will now build my own Furnacesaurus!

Thanks Murph,

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Murphy:
Oh Yah -- A hand-held angle grinder is definatly a welders best friend--

quote:

Originally posted by Tim C Cook:
It also depends on if you are pushing or pulling the weld. Most times, I am pushing.. I always push if I can.. For large gaps, you have to pull the weld.. For vertical corners, the weld just sort of falls with gravity. Welding upside down is yet another story.
Welding is actually allot like driving. (sort of).
And oh ya.. My face is always about 8 to 10 inches from the object.. (bar any obsticals my head and mask wont fit through)

Murphy,
A grinder is actually a weldor's best teacher! The more ya grind, the harder you try to make a weld that needs no or little grinding.
A welder is a machine and a weldor is a person who welds. This is NOT a flame!

Tim,
I sorta misunderstand your statement about "vertical" welds. I always "stack" the bead on top of the bead. Maybe it would be better to say that my verticals are a bunch of horizonal beads, each one on top of the previous one, without stopping.
Procedure like - 1 2 3, first count being the pause on one side, weld to opposite side and pause in place for another 1 2 3 count, each count being about 1/4th of a second.

I used to routinely weld high pressure steam pipe (6G certification). Downhill E-6010 root pass (or TIG root) followed by one or more "uphill" E-7018 (or other E-xx018 rod). Failed only two X-Ray exams in over 3500 welds.

The last 10 years or so, I was not able to maintain the short sight distance because "older" eyes are not able to focus to as short of a distance as "younger" eyes.

I respect you both for your research and willingness to help others and hope your hard work pays you a dividend that makes you feel proud. Keep up the good work!

Bob

Murphy,

Maybe you posted it already but could you post the specs of your heater? Physical dimemsions, weight, heat output range, type of fuel, safety equipment (very important), does it self start and stop? Would you leave the heater unattended 24/7?

quote:

Originally posted by canolafunola:
Murphy,

Maybe you posted it already but could you post the specs of your heater? Physical dimemsions, weight, heat output range, type of fuel, safety equipment (very important), does it self start and stop? Would you leave the heater unattended 24/7?

Here you go:
http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/wasteheaterinformation/literature.pdf

Murphy,
YOU ARE THE MAN!!!! This is the kind of system I've dreamed about!! When I retire from the Navy, I'm going to start a sustainable farm raising vegetables and chickens and was trying to figure out how to heat greenhouses, barns, workshops, and chicken coups sustainably and efficiently. I had researched commercial WMO burners but they cost thousands of dollars and their websites never stated if they can burn WVO. I can't wait to see your boiler design! This is the kind of thing that just lights a fire in my belly, no pun intended! When I get back home (I'm currently deployed to Iraq) I'm going to order your plans and if you ever design a boiler (please!!!) I'm going to order those plans too. I tell ya man, your work will help to prevent us from inporting oil when people use this in place of fuel oil burners. Work like that has a special place in my heart. It keeps America safer, keeps money out of the terrorists hands, and contributes to the possibility of someday never having to send Americans to troubled, oil rich lands again. Thank you sooo much!

AW1 John D. Shelton
Camp Ramadi, Iraq
www.maxmpg.org

P.S. Refering to an earlier part of the discussion, I love to weld too. My favorite is gas welding. I thought I'd hate it when I took a community college class but it's the greatest. And yeah, you watch the flame till it looks like it's gonna start "sweating" then when the puddle puddle forms, ya watch that. I get so close to the flame my face heats up a lot! I enjoy the heat management for lack of a better term. Thanks again!