Tim, I built a version of Murphys grease burner, I used a flame semsor that vaporizes mercury, it is mounted right in the flame no worries about getting to hot, they are a bit spendy though something like 115 bux, it is basically just a mercury switch.

so fabricator tell us more 110 volt 12 volt etc part ## where did you get???? Tigman

It's 110, got the paperwork round her somewhere I'll see if I can find.

It's a White Rodgers 3049-115, the 115 has a short reaction time, my pilot burns right on it untill it closes then opens the main air valve, the pilot continues to burn until for a few seconds then goes out, but now the grease flame is hot enough to keep the switch satisfied, if the grease flame ever goes out the switch opens and the main air valve closes

http://www.white-rodgers.com/wrdhom/pdfs/06_Cat_pages/Cat_06_pg0080.pdf

Oh yeah, I got it from Johnstone supply.

110 great..I can make a 12 volt setup easy..but i was hpeing 110..dig them papers up when ya can..Tigman

your the man

tigman -- Don't know just what flasher circuit you are thinking of but the flame detector circuit is not like any flasher circuit that I am aware of.

The relay in my 12 volt circuit can actually be eliminated, I added it so the plus side of the 12 volts would be switched, this is more familiar to most folks but it is actually just as effective to switch the ground lead instead of the plus lead. the FET power transistor is already switching the ground for the relay, by removing the relay and using the FET transistor to switch the ground to the motor speed control directly the extra 1/4 amp of current being used to turn the relay on can be saved. Saving 1/4 amp doesn't sound like much but with my 12 amp battery saving a 1/4 amp will let the battery run the pump for over an additional hour because of the overall current draw from the battery. So far the pump motor is drawing about 1 1/2 amps so this gives around 8 hours of operation from the 12 amp battery if the mains power goes out.

I deliberatly did not clean the burner bowl to see how well the flame detector worked, took a full 4 days before the burner bowl crusted up enough to cause the flame to go out, I found this within maybe 15 minutes of the flame going out, the stove was still at 100 deg f so doing a relight was easy. The burner bowl only had a small damp spot in the bottom, no liquid oil at all, the flame detector must have turned off the pump about 15 seconds after the flame went out or there would have been considerably more oil in the burner bowl -- HARRAY IT WORKS.. The flame detector also did not cause any false shutdowns over the 5 days it has been in operation, looks good so far.

Oh Yah, My flame detector device cost less than $10.00 in parts, including the $3.50 auto accessory relay.

like http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp the pulsed to steady output diagram

Tim, you may want to consider wiring up the extra set of relay contacts to a phone dialer to call your cell phone when there's a flame out!

AH - OK - relay logic circuitry, been a LONG time since I worked on anything using it, it takes BIG capacitors to get much of a time delay.

One nice thing about a concrete floor is that it holds heat well, I can loose heat for at least 12 hours without the house cooling down all that much so don't need to be allerted instantly to a flameout.

Alarm -- Actually, using one of the very low current pizio alarm units available today I can get an alarm without more relay contacts. By connecting one side of the pizio alarm to ground and the other side through a 2.2K resister to the connection where the relay connects to the FET power transistor. Once the FET switches off the relay will open, the relay coil is only around 100 ohms so the alarm will be powered through the relay coil but does not draw enough current to turn the relay back on. I intend to add this shortly.

The flame detector has worked flawlessly so far, no false shutdowns and has turned off the pump on every flameout.

I have been trying to find one of the "barometric dampers" that Scott C. mentioned, haven't found one locally yet. I think this will help a lot with my flameouts as they only occure during high wind periods.

My local auto rapair place heats with a commercial waste oil burner, it has one of these automatic dampers on it's flue pipe, the damper is balanced with a weight and moves slightly more open or closed when even the slightest bit of wind blows across the top of the chimney.

Startup fuel blend -- I have been using a small propane torch to ignite diesel as my startup fuel, takes several seconds of applying the torch to get the diesel to ignite. I have tried several more volital fuels as a 10% blend with the diesel. The idea is to be able to light the startup fuel using a BBQ lighter rather than the propane torch. Methanol works but does not dissolve in diesel at all, it floats on top the diesel. Even when shaken vigorously in a 2-liter soda bottle the methanol seperates almost immediatly. This really is not a problem for startup fuel as long as you remember to shake the fuel before pouring it into the burner bowl(fuel lookjs like orange juice when shaken). The methanol almost immediatly floats to the top for very easy lighting, the alcohol flame then automatically lights off the diesel after just a few seconds.

So far a 10% blend of E85 has worked the best, the E85 DOES blend completely with diesel, no seperation even after 2 days at 60 deg f temps. This blend ignites very easily without any WHOOSH like gasoling gives. Both alcohols give a nice clean blue flame when first ignited. Interestingly, the flame sensor does not see the blue flame but does automatically turn the pump on once the flame turns yellow from the diesel. This makes for simple stove lighting, pour about a half cup of start-up fuel in the burner bowl, light it with the BBQ lighter, blue flame starts burning, then the diesel ignites with a more yellow flame, and in about 15 - 20 seconds the oil drip pump automatically turns on - done.

tim how much fuel are you consumeing in an average day currently?? Tigman

Fuel use -- It has been pretty mild up until the last couple days. the daytime temps have been in the mid 40's and the nightime temps in the mid to low 30's, at these temps I have the fuel pump only turning one turn in every 6-7 seconds, this delivers about one drop of fuel every second. This is around 1/2 pint/hour, or about 1 1/2 G/day (heater burning continuously 24-7). This size fire keeps the temperature of the outer surface of the burner tank at around 100 to 130 degrees f with a small fan blowing air across the burner tank and flue stack from about 6 ft away.

It has cooled off a bit in the last couple days, daytime is now in the low 40's or upper 30's, nightimes have dropped down into the mid teens, 17 last night. I have turned the pump up to 4 to 4 1/2 sec/rev so am now burning just a bit over 2 gallons over a 24 hour period. The outer tank temp stays between 150 and 175 degrees f with this fuel feed rate. The house stays anywhere from 72 to 80 deg f. This is a small well insulated house on a thick concrete slab, 24 ft X 32 ft, mostly one big room with a small bedroom and small bath, about like a 1-bedroom apartment. the stove sets in the center of the house.

I'd like to report on a successful modification to my old Sears shop heater ("pot" burner). Using a small punch as a lever, I angled all the air inlet holes to give it some swirl. This resulted in a swirling tornado-like flame, just like a Turk burner. There is no obvious change in the fuel consumption, but a dramatic reduction in deposits. It has only used B100 since I got it, and used to build-up a carbon layer after a few days of operation, made worse if it was running at low settings. It's been running for 5 days, low at night, high during the day, and has only a trivial carbon layer that isn't sticking!
Here's my guess what is happening: the vortex holds the partially burned fuel vapor/droplets away from the chamber walls, so they don't contact anything that they could condense onto. The flame is yellow in the upper regions (as usual), and blue in the bottom (the pot). It's always smoked a little, and still does, and the same amount. In other words, the only change has been to the carbon deposits.
Pot-burners have been occasionally discussed in various other threads.

Tim, concrete floor holds heat. Think frozen pipes and peace of mind going away for a few days..

hey Tim been thinkin about that flame monitor of yours..anyway to get a better diagram with part # and sources..i cant seem to get the one you posted large enough to read...Tigman

Tim,

I hate to interrupt but I have some good news. As I spoke with you before about the barometric back draft damper. Well I installed it about 2 weeks ago and wow what a difference .I installed it about 18" up from the manual flue damper and havent had a flame out since. As the wind blows the draft increases and the barometric damper opens and it draws the extra air from there . There is absolutley no change in flame pattern.

I will try to upload some pics of the install but wow what a huge improvement. I would definetly reccomend this even with small increases in wind draft the damper just bounces slightly open and compensates!

wind is a huge issue here in Montana I'd like to see damper setup also...Tigman

after watching one of these work here locally I an also convinced the barometric damper will be a big improvement, now if I could just find one locally in the configuration I need. The only ones I have found, even on the net, are built into a wrong end of a "T" for my needs, I need one that just pushes into the flue pipe or that is in one end of the top part of a "T", still looking.

I was forced to start testing a somewhat different burner bowl yasterday, it has stayed lit for the last 24 hours with no problem even though we have been having very gusty high winds all that time. I noticed that I had poked a couple pinholes in my original thin ss bowl sometime over the last year of use so went back to the sporting goods store to pick up another one, no go, not available any more. I searched locally for a couple weeks and still no go for bowl with bends of a a smooth-flowing style (rounded sides so the ash could blow out easilly). I DO find slightly large SS bowls being sold as dog food dishes about everywhere, they are slightly larger, 1 quart rather than the original bowls 3/4 quart, but they are a half inch deeper and the sides are much more straight and have 75-80 degree bends at the top and bottom, I thought this would not let them work well as a burner, seems that I was wrong. This new bowl burns much "smoother" than the shallower bowl, the flame does not flicker nearly as much even though I am feeding it more air. It may be harder to de-carbon due to it being deeper, don't know yet as it is burning so well I didn't want to shut the stove down, weel see. It may be that the deeper bowl holds more heat inside so the drops vaporize better ? if there is less coal I will really be happy.


flame sensor -- The parts for this are all cheap generic parts, any electronics supplier should have them, even the surplus places. The FET power transistor is the only one that they might not have but any "N" type FET transistor in a TO-22 package will work (TO-22 package is about the size of a postage stamp), the pins and the package are all the same.

The picture below is of a parts list showing the generic part number and the Jameco.com ordering part number, prices are from a few weeks ago so may be a few cents higher now, there is no cover or minimum charge from this vender when making the order over the web.

Type the Jameco part number into the Jameco search box and it will take you to an order page for that part. You can also download the spec sheet for the part by clicking the "get datasheet" location. The data sheet will have a better picture and description of what each connection on the part is.

EDIT - I resized this picture, hope it is easier to see.

part_list_-_Jameco_part_numbers_2_X_3.JPG (25 Kb, 29 downloads)

this picture is another version of the schematic with a couple drawings of what the transistors look like, and which lead is which.

EDIT - Also resized this picture smaller.

schematic_-_2_X_3.JPG (23 Kb, 35 downloads)