BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel For Heating    3rd oil heater so far, this one is based on the Sanders heater concept.
Page 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... 22

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
3rd oil heater so far, this one is based on the Sanders heater concept.
 Login/Join
 
member
posted Hide Post
This shows the amount of soot flakes laying on the burner support platform, there is not really a layer of flakes, just random flakes laying on the steel plate. With the solid burner bowl there would usually be about a solid half inch layer of soot flakes here after each 3 day burn.

Imagenew_burner_-_soot_flakes_on_plate.JPG (24 Kb, 149 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
I cut one inch off the height of the bottom burner can, WOW, I had no idea that this small of a change could make this big of a differance. The laser pointer on the IR thermometer is turning out to be a nice feature, it lets you make burner tank heat comparisons for specific locations on the tank with different burner configurations.

This slight one inch change has completely changed the temp characterization along the height of the burner tank, the narrow 2 inch "hot band" is completely gone and the temp along the height of the tank had been smoothed out to a nice linear temp change that seems to be transferring much more heat to the room for the same amount of fuel being burnt.

The burner has been running fine for only 18 hours now so it will be a few days before I will know if it will burn longer than the usual 3 days before needing to be cleaned.

The picture shows a quick sketch of the burner tank temps. Fuel rate of the burn is someplace between 1/4 and 1/3 of a pint/HR, or 6.2 sec/revolution of the fuel feed pump. This small fuel rate will require a couple days to verify as the fuel level in my storage tank will have to be measured to get an accurate measure as a 3/4 inch drop in the fuel level equils only a 1/2 gallon of fuel.

The heater has a 10 inch table fan, set to its lowest setting, blowing across the upper half of the tank and the 6 inch flue pipe, the fan is sitting on top of a refrigerator about 6 ft from the heater.

Based on the temp numbers, it looks like I am transfering all but 10 degrees of the available heat into the room air.

The numbers on the left side of the tank are the inches from the bottom of the tank, right side numbers are temps corresponding to the inch number locations.

Imagetemp_profile_of_dog_bowl_heater-50c.jpg (38 Kb, 151 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
I measured my fuel use rate over the last couple days, my guestimates were WAY off. In reality I am burning right at 12 fluid ounces (3/4 pint) of veg/hour rather than the guestimate of 1/4 to 1/3 pint/hr.

I also found that it only takes a very tiny change in the flue damper setting to change the burner tank temps a good amount. The temps I showed in the prior diagram were with a flame color of a mid to bright orange, at this setting there was no obvious soot collecting on the burner or the combustion air inlet pipe. With this flame I had a reading 365 deg f at the 18 inch point on the tank (this is at the welded seam), I opened the damper only maybe a 1/16 inch, this shifted the flame color to a much brighter yellow but it also lowered the 18 inch point temps down to about 340 deg f (measured 4 hours after change to allow for temp stabilization). Not sure just what to make of this, the yellow flame should be hotter then the bright orange flame but the tank cooled, I assume the added cold airflow accounts for this. don't know, more testing.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tim, will your thermometer measure the flame temp? If so shoot it at the orange flame then the yellow flame.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tim, your good posts here inspired me to start testing a dog bowl heater. For 2 years I have been using a simple VO drip with a needle valve from a pot onto wood in my woodstove, described in this thread. It was a simple change to add the bowl. I did this so I can burn more VO since I just was given 3000 gallons of new PHO, solid until 100F but perfect for this burner.

My stainless bowl is a 1.4 quart, and I drilled 16 1/8" holes about halfway up. Then I set it into a cookie tin, and drilled a 2" hole in one side where the combustion air comes in below the bowl. The amount of air from below is adjustable by one damper on the side of the stove. This allows most of the combustion air to come in from below, and I didn't rig up any blowing down from the top. Its interesting to watch since the flames appear to shoot out mostly from the air holes, almost looking like a burner on a gas stove, only more yellow/orange with flames 6-12" tall. It burns clean and steady, and has a wide range of adjustment available, I have only run it 1 day so far but will report back with long term results.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
fabricator -- Tried to measure the flame temp directly but no go, the max temp this thermometer will measure is 948 deg f, the temp display jumped wildly from 800 deg f up to showing the "over-range" symbol.

SunWizard -- Great info, I will be testing the addition of cool oxygen rich air from outside the heater tank as my next test, this may cool the bowl too much, won't know til I try it. The external air should contain more oxygen than the hot combustion gasses inside the stove, I hope anyway. The "military heaters" discussion burner brings it's combustion air in from the outside and folks are saying they are getting blue flames burning straight veg, would be nice.

I did the oil-drip-on-wood for a couple winters, worked, but carrying wood every couple hours got old. It is a lot nicer to carry one 5 gallon can of oil in every couple days, even nicer to spend a couple hours once every 8 - 14 days filling my 25 gallon indoor oil tank.

I am still burning oil in a double bowl drip insert in a wood stove (old discussion here) but intend to replace it shortly with an improved version of the heater discussed here once this current round of burner testing gets the burner design firmed up. The old wood stove that I am using does not have nearly as much surface area to radiate heat so I am burning up to a quart/hr of veg, my old drafty minimally insulated shop house is also much harder to heat, hopefully I can cut the amount of veg I need to burn in the shop by half?

I burned wood occasionally this fall before I needed heat full time, all the carrying reminded me why I started testing the oil burner.

The new ventilated burner assembly has now been burning continuously with a bright yellow flame for a full 8 days without being shut down, flaming out, or being cleaned, hard to believe, the prior record had been 4 days and produced a small volcano of coal in the bottom of the bowl.

The burner is still burning with a nice bright yellow flame but I am just now seeing (through stove peep hole) a bit of coal in the bottom of the bowl, can't see it well enough through the flickering flame but there has not been any obvious reduction in heat or increase in soot from the burner.

I am using the horizontal welded seam on the burner tank as a referance point for temp measurments, it just happens to also be the highest temp along the profile of the tank. The tank temp was between 325 and 350 degrees when the test started, this was burning 12 fl oz/hr of straight veg, and with outside temps in the low 30's F at night and low 40's f during the day, the weather turned colder about 6 days ago, daytime high has been 22-24 deg f, nightime has dropped down to 8-9 deg f. I had to bump the fuel rate up to 15 fl oz/hr to get the tank seam temp back to the 325 - 350 deg f point, it has held steady ever since and the house has stayed between 77 and 82 deg f - BIG SMILE.

I have just gathered the material to add external air to the bottom of the burner, It will take a couple days to weld up the new burner support pedistal that includes a 90 deg bend of 2 inch exhaust pipe, the air will come through this exhaust pipe bend, up through the bottom of the burner tank and into the lower can of the burner assembly. If it performs as your unit I may be able to close off the top combustion air input completely. I thought it might be needed to supply the top air to insure any soot was blown out of the burner bowl, but if the burn is clean enough hopefully the soot produced will be minimal.

I just tonight picked up a couple 1 PINT SS pet food bowls, I intend to try this same burner idea in a much smaller 8 or 10 inch diameter tank, hopefully it will heat a motor home.

Another idea is to build a similar heater using a 12 inch diameter air compressor tank as the inner burner tank and welding a 14 inch diameter propane tank around the top 2/3 of this inner tank to use to heat water. This burner will go out in my detached garage and the hot water will be piped inside my shop house as heat, maybe also use the hot water to heat my settling tanks rather than spending $35.00/month for electic settling tank heat?
Hopefully the radiated heat from the burner tank will also keep the garage warm enough to be usable in winter?

Info -- I recently replaced the windshield wiper motor on one of my drip metering pumps due to worn brushes. The old motor was from a 1993 Chevy car, Cavalier I think, The replacement wiper motor is from a 1988 dodge pickup truck. The Dodge motor uses only slightly more than half the current that the chevy motor draws, Chevy motor drew 1.6 to 1.7 amps where the Dodge pump draws .8 to .9 amps turning the same speed. Makes battery backup, or off grid use, run a lot longer.

Looking forward to your further testing.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
You will have a good way to adjust how much air comes in from above versus below which should be interesting trying different settings. My intake air cools the bowl too much since the bowl is 3" deep and the cookie tin is 3.5" deep, so sometimes I get pooling VO but it still burns cleanly. A taller support may preheat the intake air more and avoid the cooling.

Last year I tried a simple pot burner (no holes) and it burned much dirtier so I quit using it and went back to wood with VO drip.

Another idea which may work better is to plumb the intake air so it gets preheated by the flames, then enters through the holes in the bowl. The holes in the bowl is a good advance, and I think trying different positions and sizes for the holes is a good area for research. I think the distance of the holes from the bottom of the bowl will change it, mine are much lower than yours. My theory was that more of the flames are then inside the bowl, and can transfer more heat to the bowl. I may try even lower than halfway down.

Preheating the VO before it drips also helps combustion. I even tried heating it to vapor by using a coil of 3 - 3" diameter loops 1/8" ID brake line inside the flames. This worked and produced a large flame directly where the VO exited the pipe, and no drip. But I found this had a narrow range of adjustment and feared it would coke inside the pipe.

Another idea I may try: using the catalytic screen off a radiant kerosene heater like this one:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/p..._200316426_200316426
This might make a clean burn.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I’ve been heating my house since October first solely with my oil burner (205 gallons so far).
A cubie a day keeps my sore back from hauling wood away. It was -1 degree this morning and the heater is keeping up just fine although I will probably see -20 in the near future. I believe I average about 1 quart an hour. At this rate the oil tends to pool up in a 1 quart pet dish, I’ve been trying different pots. I used some that could get a 5" band red hot around the whole outside but out side it would snow black soot flakes pretty heavy. Now Im using a 1 quart pet dish in a coffee can (like Tims ) but had to cut the can real short about the same height as the pet dish as my pot holder is welded in place so I would be to high with out cutting down the can. Well it still pools some at a fast drip however it is boiling pretty good (staying hotter), had some build up after 24 hours but the burn is fairly clean and I plan to clean the pot out every day.
I made a 1500 mile trip to Branson, MO. In November in my 97 f250 7.3. All went well I took two 55 gallon barrels and off I went. I averaged between 13 and 14 mpg pulling a 13 foot scamp (only 1000 pounds).


97 powerstroke wvo two tank hih heated filter mallory fi110 veg pump looped return on veg
02 vw jetta two tank hih davco filter greace car suply& retun valve webasto parking heater(block heater)
home heated with wvo clean burn drip heater as of 10/01/12 drip heater in storage. Low WVO supply, back to burning wood.
 
Registered: October 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by harry3:... pulling a 13 foot scamp (only 1000 pounds).
Something that might intrest you

Fiberglass Egg RV board AKA Scamps etc


_________________________
If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
harry3 -- Did you put any air holes in the pet dish and the lower support can (see above posts)?

The new ventilated burner has now completed 10 straight days of burning with no shutdown or cleaning, still making the same heat and burning with a bright yellow flame.

This is getting ridiculous.

I should have the new lower burner pedistal that will allow outside air into the bottom of the burner built by this weekend, I may have to terminate the continuous burn test just to install this new burner pedistal, bummer.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tim, I did put around 16 holes in the pet dish. The coffee can sits on a platform I have welded in the bottom of the heater and I really don’t want to re fabricate till cold weather passes. Tim what is your distance from top of pet dish to bottom of air intake?
Jeepin thanks I visit that site often.


97 powerstroke wvo two tank hih heated filter mallory fi110 veg pump looped return on veg
02 vw jetta two tank hih davco filter greace car suply& retun valve webasto parking heater(block heater)
home heated with wvo clean burn drip heater as of 10/01/12 drip heater in storage. Low WVO supply, back to burning wood.
 
Registered: October 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tim, good to see you are trying different things to make it burn cleaner/longer. Will the change to add external air be to the woodstove or the other burner?
How will the air be routed?

Do you have access to a smoke tester? It would be interesting to see how much smoke it is putting out.

Re the non contact thermometer. You will find it more accurate on a black surface. So paint the stove black if not already.
 
Registered: May 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
harry3 -- Did you also add larger air holes to the lower support canister so the hot gasses from the interior of the stove can easily get to the holes in the burner bowl?

Distance from air inlet to top of burner bowl -- I will have to measure this once I shut down the stove but It is something like 5-6 inches, from pasts tests it is better to be farther away than being too close, I had random flameouts with a 4 inch distance, changing this to 6 inches completely eliminated the flameouts being caused by wind over the chimney, adding a "baromatric damper" to the flue also made a HUGE differance in stabilizing the draft through the heater, I recommend one of these automatic flue draft dampers for any drip heater, is keeps the draft through the stove almost the same no matter how hard the wind is blowing across the top of the chimney.

canola -- The new external air input will be put in the 100 pound propane tank dog bowl heater being discussed here. The outer tank of this heater was sort of cobbled together from an earlier failed vertical pointing pressure burner heater test, the tank bottom has a 4 inch diameter hole through it's center where the pressure burner was mounted. When switching to a drip fed burner I made up the burner support pedistal that sets over the 4 inch hole, I am making up a new support pedistal using a 90 deg sweeping pre-bent 9 inch X 9 inch curve of 2 inch auto exhaust pipe, one end of this 90 will come up through the 4 inch hole, A 6 inch diameter 1/8 inch thick round plate will slip over the interior end of this 2 inch pipe and the peanut can used as the lower burner support can will sit on this plate, the plate is just slightly smaller in diameter than the bottom of the can. There will be a 2 inch opening in the bottom of the support can that lets the outside air up inside the can. The lower outside end of the 90 deg exhaust pipe bend will protrude an inch or so past the outside diameter of the burner tank and have a sliding damper over it's end to limit the amount of outside air going into the burner.

I will test different configurations of the lower support can, one will allow only external air, another will use both external air as well as have holes allowing the hot internal stove gasses to also feed back into the can, this may allow a bit of preheat to the cold external air and keep the bottom of the burner bowl hotter. Another possibility is to make up a can-in-can lower support can, this will have an internal can that coveres the lower portion of the bowl, below the air holes, to help insulate it from the colder outside air, but still let the external air get to the holes in the upper section of the burner bowl. The bottom of the inner can will have legs that will hold it maybe a half inch above the bottom of the outer can, the outside air will come up through the bottom of the outer lower can, then flow out and up between the space between the inner and outer can. The size and location of the burner bowl holes can also be tested, MANY veriations to test with this design, plus, having control of both top and bottom air will allow even more combinations to test.

I intend to build a new heater using info found from this testing. I suspect it will have a smaller diameter top air input pipe down the center of the burner tank, not so much to supply combustion air but to allow a place to put the fuel drip tube, the cool in-going air will help keep the drip tube cool. The drip tube alone could be passed throught the top of the stove but it would get way too hot and coak up over time, I have had this happen a couple times even with the current drip tube being inside the existing 3 inch air inlet pipe. The current stove has a 90 deg bend in it's 3 inch air inlet tube, the tube exits the side of the tank rather than out the top, this makes removing the drip tube for cleaning a pain, the stove has to be shut down for cooldown, then unscrew the drip tube plumbing ect, pain-in-the-ars - By placing the drip tube straight down throught the center of the top of the stove it can be designed to allow it to simply be lifted out of the somewhat larger cooling air tube if it needs unclogging. The 3/4, 1, 1 1/4? inch vertical outer air inlet pipe will also let me place the flameout optical detector looking down through this vertical air/drip tube inlet pipe rather than having to drill a seperate hole through the side of the burner tank as I did for this current heater.

Smoke tester -- Don't know what this is, how does it deturmine smoke amounts? There is a small amount of smoke visable coming from the chimney but not much, it is just a wispy amount that is totally dissipated within 2-3 ft from the top of the chimney, you have to deliberately stand still and watch the top of the chimney to even see it.

Black surface -- Not painted black but it is a dark brown sorta shiny fine grained rust that has been rubbed over with veg, almost like black paint but more of a dark rusty grey/brown. The temp measurments are mainly for comparison over time so as long as the color stays the same for all measurments it works as a comparison.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tim– yes I did cut 2 -1 ½" holes in the coffee can. I had to shorten the coffee can to about the same length as the pet dish. This summer I will try the full length of the can.


97 powerstroke wvo two tank hih heated filter mallory fi110 veg pump looped return on veg
02 vw jetta two tank hih davco filter greace car suply& retun valve webasto parking heater(block heater)
home heated with wvo clean burn drip heater as of 10/01/12 drip heater in storage. Low WVO supply, back to burning wood.
 
Registered: October 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The entire 6" length of drip tube thats inside my stove is straight and exposed to the flames. This allows me to simply poke a wire into the end of the tube and scrape it clean the few times it has coked up in 2 years of running it. I think the cooler VO running through it prevents coking, except at each shutdown when the flow stops.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
 
Location: N. Colorado | Registered: August 31, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
The new ventilated burner assembly finally flamed out after burning continuously for 13 1/2 days, It had started to show a shift to a bit more of an orange flame color on the 12 day. The average fuel feed rate during this burn was 14 fl oz/hour (7/8 of a pint) of straight used veg.

The entire bottom 3/4 inch of the burner bowl was covered with crud. The upper portion of this crud was a soft crumbly coal but the bottom half was a somewhat runny mix of veg and soot. The top crumbly coal was almost conpletely covering the lower oil and I suspect it was blocking any vapor from being released from the hot lowerr oil. There also was a bit of a "volcano" of ash in the center of this crud.

This picture is of the crud in the burner bowl.

Image7_-_crudded_up_bowl-quarter_top_view.JPG (37 Kb, 93 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
There was about a half inch of dry soot leaf laying on the burner support plate.

Image5_-_half_inch_soot_on_burner_plate-burner_removed.JPG (24 Kb, 66 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
There was about a one inch thick layer of loose dry soot flakes around the outer edge of the bottom of the burner tank.

Image2A_-_one_inch_soot_around_edge_of_burner_tank-wider-clean_center.JPG (31 Kb, 67 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
I had made up the new burner support plate assembly that would allow cool outside air to be added to the bottom of the burner assembly. This consists of a sweeping 90 deg bend of pre-bent 2 inch exhaust pipe, a mounting plate that located the assembly in the center 4 inch hole in the burner tank, a plate to support the burner assembly, and an adjustable damper to on the outside end of the pipe.

This picture shows the complete assembly before being installed in the burner tank.

Image5_-_full_air_tube-side_view.JPG (24 Kb, 102 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
Slightly angled view better showing the damper.

Image5_-_full_air_tube-slight_angle_view.JPG (27 Kb, 102 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ... 22 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel For Heating    3rd oil heater so far, this one is based on the Sanders heater concept.

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014