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anyone use soapy fuel in a beckett?
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First off, thanks to all who got me through my earlier furnace troubles. I have a few hundred gallons of bio that is in long term settling (400-500 ppm) some is as high as 1500. Repeated filtering in shavings didn't get this fuel any lower, so I drummed it up hoping gravity would take over.

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with soapy fuel for heating? My tank is inside, and if it will work reliably, I can use up some fuel that I won't have to fight with to get it good enough to run in the trucks. Since I went to a .65 nozzle, my furnace has been trouble-free.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good luck trying to run bio with high soap levels. I make sure all my bio is below 80 ppm for soap levels before it goes in the basement. I tried bio with high soap levels and had problems with plug-ups even with the pump pressure at 150 psi. For peace of mind I don't want to take chances and have my wife call me at work saying the furnace quit and the house is getting cold.
Just curious are you using a solid cone or hollow cone nozzle? Did you up the pump pressure?
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I guess that answers that question. I'm running a hollow nozzleat about 125 psi. It's the best the furnace has ever run. How soapy was the fuel you were having trouble with?


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Before sending biodiesel through shavings you need to demeth the fuel so that the methanol will no longer bind the soap to solution.

That said, if you start out with dry oil you will not be creating any significant amount of soap that cannot be simply dealt with.

When I process I settle and then demeth and settle again before passing it through wood chips and then 2 resin tanks; that is for car/tractor fuel.

Because I have had my fuel GC tested I know that it passes ASTM just from the settling phase after demething so of late that is what we have been putting in the Beckett AFG boiler, fuel that has been demethed and then in the Beckett it goes without chips or filtering any further. As of today (couple hours ago) it is still cycling perfectly. Our nozzle is a 1.0 (yeah I know) and is set at 150 PSI and this works well in our situation where the boiler heats a farm store via home built radiator and small greenhouse via in-ground radiant heating. It didn't even require cleaning before starting up for this winter's run. We'll see if the non filtered fuel will necessitate a good cleaning or not once this winter is done. Last year it had only fully filtered fuel (as described above).

HTH



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The fuel has been demethed. We vacuum distill with about 22"hg the head temperature is set to 165, but as soon as the thermostat hits 154F it is done, not even a drip. I usually let the thing run 24 hrs just to make sure it gets as much methanol out as possible. All I can figure is we had been having our titrations get worse and worse, with our soap numbers rising as well. Since switching to acid base, our soap problems have really gone away. That said, I have a few barrels of fuel that doesn't want to improve. We even set up a water wash, misting probably 1000 gallons of water a little at a time, through 250 gallons of fuel, and the soap numbers still won't drop. It was only a couple of batches that were a problem, I just would like use them in the house instead of fighting the numbers. I always have the option of using it in the cooker we use to boil each batch for oil drying. The cooker's a babbington, so it will burn soapy fuel, along with anything else we put in it.

Legal, have you done a soap test on your settled fuel? The last time I sampled, ours ranged between 250 and 600 ppm. I haven't checked any since we started acid base, but the fuel looks pretty good. I ran a .9 all last year. The furnace ran as it has prior to running bio. This year, I had all sorts of no lights, but since going to a .65 and adjusting the air a bit, the thing runs like a champ. The fuel in question has been sitting for a about 3 months, so I'll give it a test, and see if it has dropped any. If I had to guess, It's going to test out at 3-400.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
This year, I had all sorts of no lights, but since going to a .65 and adjusting the air a bit, the thing runs like a champ.

If I remember correctly you went from a .90 to a .65 nozzle and dropping a couple of nozzle sizes ,except for bumping the pressure to 125 wouldn't help. Seems like something else has changed ,like fuel quality to help your no-lights.
Dropping to a smaller nozzle size is to compensate for jacking the pump pressure. More pump pressure means more fuel thru the nozzle. The furnace chambers are rated for a certain btu range if you go to high there is the possibly of burning thru the chamber, that's the reason for dropping to a smaller nozzle.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
How soapy was the fuel you were having trouble with?

Good question. I didn't have a soap test kit last year, but this year I wash at least one and sometimes two more times extra. One soap test this year was at 330 when I thought it looked good to go. I like to try using wood chips this year.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I made the mistake of putting soapy fuel into my tank this year and have had problems all year. The soap seems to make it through the filter but ends up partially plugging my nozzle, and I get fuel leaks. The fuel drips from the partially plugged nozzle and runs back onto the floor, I just have to keep replacing the nozzle and it'll work fine for a 4-6 weeks.

Edit: Turns out i thought my spray pattern was being disrupted however; upon further inspection I had a faulty copper fitting which was causing the leak inside the burner and my nozzle was actually completely plugged.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Generation BioDiesel,
 
Registered: May 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is starting to sound like I'm glad I asked.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Turns out i thought my spray pattern was being disrupted however; upon further inspection I had a faulty copper fitting which was causing the leak inside the burner and my nozzle was actually completely plugged.

Wow, sounds like a situation for a fire. I think my burner unit will pump for 30 seconds before it'll trip off for a no-light , more than enough time needed to determine the unit isn't going to ignite.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by heatbeater:
quote:
Turns out i thought my spray pattern was being disrupted however; upon further inspection I had a faulty copper fitting which was causing the leak inside the burner and my nozzle was actually completely plugged.

Wow, sounds like a situation for a fire. I think my burner unit will pump for 30 seconds before it'll trip off for a no-light , more than enough time needed to determine the unit isn't going to ignite.



Ya not good at all. After I replaced the nozzle the burner fired right up, but the leak continued to drip inside and was being sprayed all around by the shaft that turns the pump. When I shut down the burner, and open the burner lid i could see a flame burn for almost a minute in the pot and fuel very close by; that could get messy.

So it turns out it had less to do with soapy fuel (1 pass through ion exchange tower), than it did with the fitting.
 
Registered: May 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was worried for awhile when I went to bio and bumped up the pump pressure from 100 to 150 psi if any connections let go alot of fuel will pump out before the unit trips off.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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. More pump pressure means more fuel thru the nozzle.



How do you figure? Your saying I can turn a .65 gal per hour into a .75 gal per hour just by increasing the pressure?
 
Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How do you figure?

Nozzle ratings are based on 100 psi
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So .. I can use the same .65 nozzle and make it a .75 or .85 or .95 just by keeping increasing the pressure?

By increasing the prssure I would think you are putting the same amount of fuel through, just atomizing it more.

at low pressure its a stream...higher pressure a spray...higher pressure yet a mist...higher pressure yet.. a fog... but still putting through .65 gal per hour of fuel.
 
Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ShadowB,
You are forgetting what else happens when you increse pump pressure.
You will also increase flow. Increased fluid pressure allows more fluid volume too flow thru a given orfice. Yes it will atomize the fuel better.Also due too the fact that ,( according too the last time I researched manufacture specs.) nozzles are tested at 100-120 psi. You must drop nozzles sizes.Changing what type of flame cone,(solid, semi-solid,hollow )I am not sold on.
This maybe something the manufactures should start researching. I only say this due too the fact states are now mandating the use a % of Biodiesel in HHO.
Well Hope this helps out,
Best Regards,
Joe D Smile
 
Location: Western Mass. | Registered: March 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yep, I got it now.

If all other things remain the same, the flow rate should increase with pressure.
 
Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use homebrew B100 in my Beckett AFG using a .65B nozzle with the pump set at 150 psi. I tried 100 psi with the same nozzle and the burner tripped off. No problems running the high pressure.
I did find a chart put out by Delavan that shows nozzles rates at different pressures. A.65 at 100 psi is .82 at 160. Remember you don't want to exceed the manufacturer's btu rating for the fire box , which could be done with a bigger nozzle and higher pressures. Using a .65 nozzle at 100psi your producing 84500 btu's hour, when you up the pressure to 160 psi your producing 106,000 btu's hour. That's using a btu output of 130,000 btu's for a gallon of biodiesel.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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You all need to keep in mind that all oil burner nozzles are rated for #2 HHO.
No manufacture 's data that I read has shown flow rates for 100% bio or any percentage of bio as of today.
Remember HHO btu content runs around 129,500 BTU'S per gallon. 100% biodiesel runs around 118,300 per gallon.
Also biodiesel is more viscous than #2HHO.
Here is a great link too show how much more the viscosity may vary due too the different feedstocks used too make biodisel.
http://www.brevardbiodiesel.org/viscosity.html
This is why the manufactures need to get on board with the changeing use of oil burner fuels.
There is aneed for more accurate and reliable laboratory proven data.
I am sure that the HVAC techs are saying the samething too there suppliers,well atleast I hope they are.
Best Regards,
JoeD Smile
 
Location: Western Mass. | Registered: March 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I probably shouldn't post this because if I do I'm sure my burners will crap out during the snow storm this weekend (lol) but . . .

I've been running unwashed B100 in three burners for the last two years with very little problem.
the soap ppm ranges from 1500 down to 800. I raised the pressure to 150 psi and dropped down several nozzles sizes. The smallest is a .5 nozzle in a hot water heater and .75 in two furnaces. This past summer I removed the burners and cleaned the ends of the burner tubes of some caked up scrud and last year had to change one of the .75 nozzles half way through the year. Other than that, running fine. My wife loves that we're burning bio for hot water so she can take longer showers quilt free. During the summer I do wash and dry the bio I use in my truck so its below 50 ppm.

With your burner properly set up, running unwashed bio shouldn't be a problem. Hasn't been for me . . . yet. lol


"This biodiesel tis a cruel and heartless mistress we home brewers have chosen"
 
Location: MA | Registered: February 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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