BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel For Heating    beckett burner problems, or help with a fire-breathing dragon!
Page 1 2 

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
beckett burner problems, or help with a fire-breathing dragon!
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted
Hi all, I'm on my second year of using my bio to heat my house. last year was a great success. I had the tanks outside, ran 100% until about new years,then had to run 80/20 with kero because of gelling. I had very little trouble last year after I got the gunk cleaned out of my old tanks. I started this year with 100%, but started having a lot of no starts. Now that is colder, I moved a tank into the basement so I could use 100% all winter. It hasn't seemed to help with the no starts.
So here's what I have:

beckett burner formerly had a .9 70deg hollow nozzle. no mods to anything on the burner during last year's run.

This year since I started having problems I have moved down to .85 70deg nozzle, replaced the transformer, cleaned and readjusted the electrodes and reset using an electrode gauge. I've tried moving the nozzle assembly back in the slot a bit. When I cleaned the burner chamber and heat exchanger it was very clogged. Apparently the our furnace guy who has been servicing this thing yearly for the last 20 years never removed the flue pipe and looked in the furnace once. There is no way that much ash could come from one one year. One thing that I noticed on this thing was that the refractory was broken at the bottom. It appears to have been like this for some time. Would this be my problem with a no start?
The furnace has always rumbled when starting, even before bio. but this winter, it rumbles and puffs smoke out of the damper and the inspection hole, then settles down and cycles for several cycles. Then a no start. sometimes it will start to cycle then shut off because it won't light, and other times it seems like it may have gone off at the end of a cycle and locked out(not sure). I've adjusted the air but it still seems like the fire is very smokey. I haven't replaced the cad cell yet.

I'm all ears for suggestions. please hurry, it's hard to type when it is this cold Big Grin

I'm going to put about 10% kero in today and see if that will help, but I don't think that is it.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
RR
-did you increase the fuel pressure? this will allow much better atomization of the biodiesel. sounds like you are pumping too much fuel prior to ignition (flooding) that will cause the smoke and huffing. This is the third winter for me, not one issue. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Been using B100 in my boiler for almost a year. .85 70A nozzle, blast tube painted white, pressure increased 12 lbs over base and air greatly reduced. I use a draft gauge to make my adjustments. I would like to try a lower grade of biodiesel though.

Sounds like you need more pressure and less air. Painting the inside of the blast tube should keep it from cycling but you've got to get the mixture right.
 
Location: Northeast US | Registered: September 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
I would like to try a lower grade of biodiesel though

-I can add up to 25% filtered wvo to the biodiesel and it still works great. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I added 10% kero today, and I got it running, but there is still a little rumbling (slight). I would have to guess there is a lot of left over fuel from trying to get it lit yesterday. I also moved the electrodes a good bit forward from what the guage sets them at. I did cut the air way back, and it did help. I need to rig up a guauge so I can see what my pressure is. It's times like this that make me want to download a murphy boiler plan and put radiant in my house. That puts the mess outside.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I know there's no one size fits all and that people have gone round and round on this- BUT! would it be better to blend with wvo or make under converted BD. It sure would be easier in this weather to stop at the first stage split and just use it. It seems glycerin is a problem with under converted and unwashed BD. I was going to install a Beckett nozzle heater originally but I haven't really needed it yet, but with a wvo mix it might help greatly.
 
Location: Northeast US | Registered: September 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I had another no light this morning, my bio is good. less than 60 ppm soaps I'm going to take it apart again and then switch to dino for a while and see if that makes any different. once it lights, it runs fine.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
Oil burners are so simple there is no need to run clean bio.I process as normal demeth the batch and let set for 3-4 days before I put the batch into my oil tank.
Ok now to your problem:
First install a fuel pressure gauge, without knowing what pressure the pump is putting out. You will never resolve the no light situation.
The top of the fuel pump should have a test port usually a 1/8" fpt port.
But an oil filled fuel gauge they seem to hold steadier than air filled gauges.
In my situation I have been buring 100% bio for 2-3 years year round.
My Burner is a Carlin and these are the mods that I had too make:
Pump pressure increaseed from 120 psi. too 150-160 psi
Drop nozzle size from .8 too .65. Reason being all nozzles are tested and rated at 120 psi. increaseing pressure increases the flow rate.
flame tube cleaned and painted heat resistant paint white or silver works best.
Air intake increase, this is done while sighting thru the site glass or burn chamber look port.
Not enough air and you will smoke, too much air and you will blowout the flame.
My flame is adjusted perfect when I see a condensed whit yellow flame with wisp trailing tails of flame comeing off of the main body.
Hard to describe but when you have it you will know what I mean.
Electrode gap and placement did not change as well as placement of the flame gun.
Burner chamber should be cleaned as well as the vent chimmney.
If you develope a after burn or nozzle drip during shut down . Change the nozzle to one with a internal check valve that closes when fuel pressure drops.
It is a learning curve but pretty easy to overcome.
Lots of luck,
Joe D Smile

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Joseph Donovan,
 
Location: Western Mass. | Registered: March 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Joe thanks for those tips, I am going to have to get a gauge. I just put some dino in it. it did start after some coaxing, but it is still running just as smokey as before. I'll have to give it a few hours to see if it relights on it's own with dino.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I would change the nozzle. We just spent some time trying to solve a burner starting problem. Turns out the low run time nozzle was bad.
 
Location: Virginia | Registered: March 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I've been able to heat my home with home brewed bio using a Beckett AFG burner unit. My tank is in the basement. I dropped one nozzle size from .75 80 to a.65 80 and added a fuel gauge on top for the fuel pump . I upped the fuel pressure to 150. I didn't paint the blast tube. Good luck to anyone trying to burn low grade bio. I wash my bio until it passes the soap test 60 ppm. and passes 3/27 before going to the wash tank. Last winter's bio wasn't washed that good and I had shut down problems. Used to get crunchy black deposits in the blast tube. I also have a Goldenrod filter to act as a sediment trap because the tank was old . With biodiesel cleansing properties it could dislodge some crap in an older tank. The tank's bottom should lean away from the outlet to allow any sediment to settle back. I hope you can fix the problem ,cause I know what it like to have the house get cold. I have a spare ignitor assembly with a new nozzle just in case, too speed up the nozzle change out even though it only takes a few minutes to change a nozzle. I've came to the conclusion that these units are not meant to burn any wvo,glycerin or soap . Just my two cents.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I think I'm going to try the .65 nozzle and get a gauge to set the pressure. It has cycled all day on 100% dino, this is getting frustrating. last year went so well.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
When I ran out of bio last year I dropped the fuel pressure down to 100 for HHO. I didn't change it when I went to bio this winter I had a plug up within 3 days. I changed the nozzle and bumped pump pressure to 150 and so far its OK .
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The recommended electrode distance is 1/16 to 1/8 inch ahead of the nozzle (looking from the side.7/16" above the nozzle orifice with a 5/32" gap. If the electrodes are too far forward the flame isn't being allowed to be dispersed properly with the flame spreader that's on the front of the blast tube. This could depend on the length of your blast tube. If the flame isn't formed behind the flame spreader,chances are any air adjustment you do won't work. This could cause alot of smoke.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
refractory was broken at the bottom.

Probably caused by fuel puddling and then igniting ,and eventually burnt thru. If conditions are right and the chamber is hot enough the unburnt fuel can vaporize and when your trying to reset the burner you can get an explosion. It probably won't be like a gas explosion but it's scary and something you don't want to happen again. It didn't think fuel oil can explode ,but if conditions are right you'll find out differently.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The little electrode gauge I have, sets the electrodes a lot farther away than that. It's probably 3/4 " above center. This thing has rumbled on start up for 15 years ( way before bio was used). Lately, the rumbling has gotten a bit out of hand, especially on bio. I'm surprised it would seem like so much more flame and smoke considering that bio has less btu's. Some of it I have to write off to the no lights putting extra fuel into the furnace. I am going to try to set them like it's posted, and cut back on the nozzle to .65.

Do hollow nozzles work better with bio? is that considered an "a" or "b" the guys at the plumbing shop aren't oil furnace guys so much.

Where should I put the gauge? I'm guessing inline with the copper tube feeding the nozzle. On my pump there is a hex plug in front, and a primer in the rear. the copper tube comes off the side.
I still haven't had any comments on weather or not the broken refractory I have inside of the heat exchanger is a problem.
Thanks to all who have given me some help on this !


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
On a Suntec pump the guage port is on top towards the back,and the adjust screw is on the front above the bleeder. Hopefully the flame spreader or retention head isn't burnt thru at the end of the blast tube. The flame spreader could also be plugged with carbon and hinder the air flow for proper flame. The vanes can clog on the burner unit's fan and this can lead to smokey flames. I'd try a .65 90B nozzle and drop the electrodes to 7/16" from the nozzle orifice. With the electrodes being that far away and a narrower nozzle angle you could on the edge of the fuel ignition range ,causing the rumble you mention.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Are you sure the hex plug in the front isn,t the bleeder? I can't see why it would be in the back. The bleeder looks like a grease fitting.
The refractory can be fixed with a wet blanket or you can buy a replacment chamber from R.E. Michel co. Hopefully it's not burnt thru the metal . One problem is R. E. Michel is a wholesaler which limits who they sell to. You may have to go to an HVAC place for help.
 
Location: western new york | Registered: November 19, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I just got a price on a new furnace $1,400 cash and carry. The dealer said It probably isn't worth putting a new refractory in it because if it is bad, the heat exchanger can't be far behind.
I'm still kicking around buying some plans, I'm in the mood to build something. Has anyone built one of Murphy's outdoor boilers? I was kind of wondering what I'd have in materials. I already have most of the tanks and steel I'd need.
I picked up a new nozzle and reset the electrodes as you all suggested. I just have to plumb in the gauge. Now where did I put that pipe dope?


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member

posted Hide Post
Murphy has a reputation for standing behind his products and offer support.



**My reactor/processor :B100WH.com
**B100 Heated Winter System
** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.
** Interview with RolfQuo Biodiesel commercial use of wood chips for filtering biodiesel

** Don't tell me who you are, show me what you do and I will tell you who you are.- Jerry Rubin**

** Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. -Albert Einstein**

**When truth cannot be refuted it is tyranny's job to silence the messenger - me**
 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Biodiesel For Heating    beckett burner problems, or help with a fire-breathing dragon!

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014