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The simple valve and gravity feed system will certainly work but would not be safe to leave unattended. As the room in which the stove is installed heats up the oil will become less viscous and more will flow into the burner, making the room warmer still , increasing the flow further.. you can see where this is leading.
The control valve overcomes this problem but cannot be used with thick fuels. The peristaltic pump is better still because it deals easily with thick dirty fuels and can be controlled by safety cutouts.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ok IMb, I get it. I had read your posts about it and i must say it makes a lot of sense. I'll be buying on of them pump.
 
Location: Galway | Registered: January 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Been a long ass time since I've been here.... working mostly off memory of this thread... not time in busy day to read it all and got to leave library here in a minute.

Few questions since I finally once again have an oil source

I have no electricity (home off the grid and use genset only every couple months) Thinking of using one of these either in my cabin (12x16) or outside and heat water and run water thru radiator in cabin (saves space in tiny cabin and slightly safer than a fire burner inside)

two problems-

1. some thermostatic control

2. need to be able to leave it unattended. (due to no elecricity that rules out a pump.)

Anyone got an idea on how to control flow based on lower viscosity by say something like having the oil to the heater along the way to heater a bit is "T"ed off out a small hole abd befire returning back to burner this small amount turns a paddle wheel.... thinner oil will flow faster.... turn paddle wheel faster... energy of paddle wheel somehow alters the oil original oil flow regular accordingly

Or any other way to use physics, and flow properties of various viscosities the oil could range thru as it heats and cools to alter the oil flow regulator?

did I mention I'm bankrupt! Down to eating one real meal a day in lovely Obomanomics. Back in college.


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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
....
Anyone got an idea on how to control flow based on lower viscosity by say....
Another idea hit me...

Float controlled needle valve. Similar to say an SU carburator..... As float/piston raised it moved the needle valve allowing for increas or decreas of fuel. Course on SU's what made this thing raise was vacuum..... our desire would be viscosity.... Does a weighted float act different in different viscosity (or act different based on temp. of oil?)


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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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was searching valves to see what was out there that would maintain equal flow no matter viscosity and found this....



It is basically a tube pincher... had doubts though if this will (as manfucature states- I messaged them and got reply) that it would actually flow equal volume no mater viscosity.

What do ya'll think?

http://www.usplastic.com/catal...7Bka4CFWOMtgodXiNKdg


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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Flow control - The military burner kit that started this discussion comes with a purely mechanical float controlled "carbaretor" to control the flow. This kit was designed to work with gasoline but sort of would work for kerosine but not all that well with diesel. Some folks in this discussion have modified them by increasing the interior openings such that they can use them with biodiesel but I don't think anyone has got them to work with any thicker oil. A friend was using one of these original kits in the appropriate mil housing with kerosine, lukily he had the stove setting in a steel tray about 2 inches deep, the carboretor screwed up and filled the burner with fuel til it ran out into the tray, it was burning furiously everwhere. he caught it just in time.

I have tried several methods to use gravity and mechanical valves, they all needed manual adjusting as the day went on and the room heated up, I never did feel good enough about one to leave it unattended.

I think some sort of metering pump is safest and allows safety shutdown controles, even temp control. Many on this discussion use the paristaltic type pumps that use rubber/plastic tubing as the pump, they work fine but are a bit expensive. A couple other folks have used the small pulse-type automotive electric fuel pumps by switching them on/off for a short time using a fairly simple 555 I.C timer circuit, this does more of a squirt now-n-then rather than a drip but they say it works fine with there fuel rates? I use modified salvaged small gear pumps that are used on normal furnace oil burners, get them for $5.00 each from my local salvage yard. I turn them very slowly with 12 volt auto windshield wiper motors that are speed controlled using not-to-expensive Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) dc motor speed controllers, these are available all over the internet. The PWM works best as they give high torque even at very low speeds of the motor but to start you can possibly use an older type automotive dash ligh dimmer power reostat (big adjustable resistor) to control the speed.

I turn the pumps at from 8 to 15 RPMs (8 sec/rev to maybe 4 sec/rev) to flow from 1/2 pint to a quart of fuel per hour, a quart/hr is WAY more heat than I need for my small 750 sq ft house even outside temps down below zero f, you would probably need less than a half pint/hr for the tiny cabin. The house stove runs 24/7, mostly unattended, during the winter. I added an optical flame sensor to my setup so the pump is turned off if the flame goes out, I intend to also add a "too hot" sensor to the stove using a salvaged electric cook stove adjustable oven thermostat, these are normally closed electrical switches until the temp gets to the temperature they are set for, then they open, placing one in the main power line will switch off all the power temperarily (can be perminant shutdown by adding one relay) if the soot in the stove catches fire or the speed controll screws up.

At my normal 2/3 pint/hr the wiper motor draws 1.2 amps so a normal car battery can run the metering pump continuously for about a week, several old batteries should run it for a month. A solar panel would keep everything running for about forever.

I am just now testing the idea of using heat from the stove to directly make enough 12 volt power to run the pump. The 3-4 inch square solid state cooling modules used in some tiny refrigerators, and almost all electrically cooled ice chests, will directly put out DC electricity if one side is heated and the other side is cooled. So far one module makes 3 volts when one side is held against the stove and the other side has the original big finned aluminum heat sink being cooled by the room air. Have not yet added a tiny fan from a computer to the heat sink but this should help. The heat is not lost, it just passes through the unit and the heat sink adds it to the air in the room. Several modules can be connected together for more volts/amps. I have bought several of the ice chests for a few bucks each from second hand places like Good Will etc.

My house stove is made from a 100 pound propane tank, I have been thinking of making up a smaller one from something like a 30 pound propane tank, or even the steel tank from a big fire extinguoisher, to use in a motor home. This size stove should work in your tiny cabin and burn something like a half cup of fuel or less per hour, this small amount of fuel would allow use of even a tinier pump (possibly an automotive windshield washer fluid pump, these are impervious to alcohol so should survive veg or even used motor oil and would run for WEEKS from a car battery. They also have the 12 volt motor built in. The correct furnace burner pump would still work, they are only about the size of a tennis ball) driven by something like one of the cheap old 6-8-9-12-18 volt battery powered hand drill units, these even already have the speed control built into the trigger. Any of these lower voltage drills will run just fine if powered directly with 12 volts as long as the load is not heavy enough to cause the electronics to overheat, turning a pump would not be a problem.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Or you can get a small woodstove and burn abundantly available scrap wood and UVO sludge mixed with sawdust. People using simple systems usually establish years of profitable experience while armchair theorists search for the perfect complex system. It's all in the balance.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John - I have a top loading 30 gallon refractory lined vertical coal/wood stove setting right next to my drip oil heater, even with the couple hundred pounds of heat retaining cement in this stove I still have to feed it an armload of wood every 3-4 hours. I go tired of fetching wood that often, especilly during the night. I find it FAR easier to carry in a 5 gallon can of oil every 2-3 days, it also takes a LOT of wood for a winter but only around 350 gallons of oil.

I do burn only wood during the spring and fall when I only have to burn one or two loads of wood in the evening to keep the house warm.

Sure wish I could buy coal in this state.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm heating 2000 sqft with an efficient woodstove that consumes about 1¼ 'banana boxes' of wood for every 10°C below freezing. The inside temperature seldom drops by more than 5°C overnight even at minus 30. If the temperature drops below 60°F by morning a ½ gallon fuel brick of VO sludge/glycerol/sawdust added to the wood fire quickly brings it back up. Easy and safe. I learned long ago that it was easier to plug the heat leaks than to burn more fuel.

It's only a matter of time before someone burns down their house with one of those non-certified drip-feed heaters, and then discovers that their insurance was void because of a non-certified heater.

My comment was directed at the individual that's been posting the same "what should I do, what should I do" song-and-dance for as long as I've been on this forum.

Yes, it's too bad you can't buy coal.... there once was a time...

...and since this is the biodiesel section of the forum... Many colleagues with oil heat have been using biodiesel or biodiesel blends in their un-modified oil-fired furnaces and boilers without any problems. Some use an interior 'day tank' while others use electric pre-heating of the fuel.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim c cook:
John - I have a top loading 30 gallon refractory lined vertical coal/wood stove setting right next to my drip oil heater, even with the couple hundred pounds of heat retaining cement in this stove I still have to feed it an armload of wood every 3-4 hours.....
You missed his point.... but can see how it might have been missread.

JG does NOT burn wood as your thinking but instead scrapwood, chips and sawdust MIXED TOGETHER w/ WVO forming a self made WVO soaked log. he packs this material into a waxed paper cartons like the old half gallon milk cartons.

This burns obviously very different than a log by itself.

Am happy to say that just Saturday I found a small place where I can get one or two of these cartons a week. Prior to that.... they were simply not available in my area.

J. Galt your in Canada, or at the border USA/Canada right?


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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:

It's only a matter of time before someone burns down their house with one of those non-certified drip-feed heaters, and then discovers that their insurance was void because of a non-certified heater.


God forbid. Yes that could happen, it has been in the back of my mind since day one. The first two winters was sleeping with one eye open and in the same room, still sleeping in the same room but now close both eyes.

If my house burns down or if life is lost that will be 100% on ME. I believe in me and what I can do. I think my set up is safe so I go with it. Notice I said think, in the back of my mind there's Always that thought, what em I over looking or what em I not seeing that could present a problem. A good example of this is last week when I was pouring cubbies into my 55 gallon in house fuel tank, something I do about every 10 day's or so. I was on my last one to be dumped in according to my clear line fuel gauge on the side of the tank, well needless to say the gauge was pluged and reading a lower amount of oil that was indeed in the tank. I was pouring wide open when oil started running over the side of the tank and on my carpet. I did not for see the fact that the gauge would ever not read correct.

A lot of my tree cutting friends that burn wood in their houses look at my heater and say it seems like it would be safer than burning wood and I agree that it is. However that does not change the fact that it is not a certified heater and if my home burns I will be left with just the land and no insurance money to rebuild.

I am willing to take that gamble, and if my home burns down and if I live through it I will rebuild on what land is left. I would heat the new home with WVO with a revision or two on the new drip heater that I would call my own.

I would not advise anyone to heat their home with any heater that is non-certified, It is not a wise decision to make. The outside boiler is the smart choice(but I like to keep it simple) keep the fire outside and pump in the hot water. If I where a younger man that's what I might do, but then again a big investment not knowing that the WVO supply would always be available.
When it comes to fire or life it's Not worth the risk. Definitely safer ways to save a few bucks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: harry3,


97 powerstroke wvo two tank hih heated filter mallory fi110 veg pump looped return on veg
02 vw jetta two tank hih davco filter greace car suply& retun valve webasto parking heater(block heater)
home heated with wvo clean burn drip heater as of 10/01/12 drip heater in storage. Low WVO supply, back to burning wood.
 
Registered: October 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The outside boiler is the smart choice keep the fire outside and pump in the hot water.


Yes, I agree completely.

Your assessment of the risks and responsibilities with your heater shows good judgement. For people who live alone or with one other responsible adult the risks can be intelligently managed. In a family environment with children and their friends present the risks can quickly become unmanageable.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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JG does NOT burn wood as your thinking but instead scrapwood, chips and sawdust MIXED TOGETHER w/ WVO forming a self made WVO soaked log.


I mostly burn roundwood, [about 95%] and some scrapwood pallets. I occasionally burn a 'fuel brick' as described with the wood-fuel fire to quickly warm up the house after it cools overnight, or if I've been away. The woodstove has about 400 lbs of masonry thermal mass stacked around it, and a fan circulates the heat to other parts of the house. The concrete blocks provide thermal mass and a very important safety barrier to prevent radiant heat from the stove from damaging the walls.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
quote:
JG does NOT burn wood as your thinking but instead scrapwood, chips and sawdust MIXED TOGETHER w/ WVO forming a self made WVO soaked log.


I mostly burn roundwood, [about 95%] and some scrapwood pallets. I occasionally burn a 'fuel brick' as described with the wood-fuel fire to quickly warm up the house after it cools overnight, or if I've been away. The woodstove has about 400 lbs of masonry thermal mass stacked around it, and a fan circulates the heat to other parts of the house. The concrete blocks provide thermal mass and a very important safety barrier to prevent radiant heat from the stove from damaging the walls.
Thanks for the clarity.

What would make your resist; if anything, burning them full time. So not to take this thread off topic feel free to respond in the appropriate old or new thread. Just leave a link please


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But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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jeepin - I also burn glop logs made from sawdust and crud veg. They burn nice and hot but I make them up pretty dry because wet ones can release a LOT of free grease and cause a REAL hot fire.

Casing for logs - I swing past dumpsters behind retail carpet stores whenever I go to town, there are almost always at least one of the 3-4 inch diameter cardboard carpet role centers available, saw them up to length and they make FINE glop log casings.

Image1_logs_worth_of_sawdust_used_from_pan.JPG (20 Kb, 22 downloads)
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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...
Casing for logs - I swing past dumpsters behind retail carpet stores whenever I go to town, there are almost always at least one of the 3-4 inch diameter cardboard carpet role centers available, saw them up to length and they make FINE glop log casings.
I was told these contain a huge amount of glue and burning them is not a good idea when toxicity is a concern. This info from a manager of a state recycling plant.


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If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Tim c cook:
jeepin - I also burn glop logs made from sawdust and crud veg. They burn nice and hot but I make them up pretty dry because wet ones can release a LOT of free grease and cause a REAL hot fire.....
can you describe "dry" in more detail please. Maybe best to do this in the thread pointed to by John Galt so not to distract this one.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...217050153#8217050153


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If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

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Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Look at the picture in my above post, the sawdust is just damp and not in the least bit gooey.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo):......

Few questions since I finally once again have an oil source.....
SHIAT-- my source just dropped me and signed up with a renderor w/out telling me of course. They said this guy pays them for the oil..

Is the WVO render industry same now as it was a few years back...... few months out of the year they buy it...... rest of the time they charge you? Last I recall it was like a commodity..... when it sells good they pay you..... when it doesn't you pay them. In the long run the resturant never breaks even much less makes any profit.


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If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
 
Location: North Tx | Registered: November 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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