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hiperf2007,
I think you've hit the nail right on the head
"leaving it at don't have your processor or storage of biodiesel in anything close to your house and if you are going to anyways, please use extreme caution."
That's all of the regulation that we really need. Wink

bernyjb,

"I just have some respect for the law, and for the rights of others."..." I have a hard time understanding how a person can promote the illegal practice of an unregulated occupation and, at the same time, flaunt his certifications so proudly."

Have all the respect for the law that you want, but don't accuse others of breaking the law, when there are no laws against what they're doing.



welder,
Mr. Twain was no great fan of papa government either.


"When you have no destination in mind, any road will do".
- Cheshire Cat said in Alice in Wonderland,


"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not."

— Dr. Seuss, from The Lorax


Natural Oil Processing Environmental Community


Buy a bumper sticker or hat go to my store: http://www.cafepress.com/Bioheat
 
Location: Dudley,MA | Registered: December 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Have all the respect for the law that you want, but don't accuse others of breaking the law, when there are no laws against what they're doing.


There are laws against tax evasion.
Are you paying the road tax for the fuel you're producing? No? then you're breaking the law.
Did your reactor pass an electrical inspection?
Fire inspection?
No?
Then you're breaking the law.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sorry to burst your little bubble, but I don't need to pay a road tax, as the fuel I'm producing is for home heating, the electrical is being put in by a Master Electrician certified by the Federal Government to work on high voltage industrial equipment for the military, and as for fire inspection when the whole thing is finished I will have all of the work inspected by my local fire dept.
So no tax evasion, but if you keep going the way you are, everyone of us will be taxed out of our minds. DO NOT ATTRACT ATTENTION TO YOURSELF! or Papa GOV't will get you Eek


"When you have no destination in mind, any road will do".
- Cheshire Cat said in Alice in Wonderland,


"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not."

— Dr. Seuss, from The Lorax


Natural Oil Processing Environmental Community


Buy a bumper sticker or hat go to my store: http://www.cafepress.com/Bioheat
 
Location: Dudley,MA | Registered: December 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<DCS>
posted
quote:
Originally posted by DCS:
I find the notion of a set of safety standards written by Bioers one of the funniest things I have heard of in a long time!


I think the last couple of pages of comments demonstrates the exact reason the notion of Bio'ers creating their own regulations is such an amusing idea!

People can't even agree on the form of the concept itself let alone what the actual standards may be or apply to! Roll Eyes

Given the level of this Discussion, deciding on what type of light bulb and switch could be installed in a processing area would cause a level of in fighting that would bring the whole idea down!
 
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Do you think This Reactor set-up is safe?

If not what are some of the concerns.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
Do you think This Reactor set-up is safe?

If not what are some of the concerns.


HAha. Nice. I'd run it.


2006 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Turbo Diesel

Fuel Blends, Recorded Miles
Diesel: 46445
B20: 978
B40: 447
B60: 2167
B80: 18690
B100: 57929
 
Location: Southern Minnesota | Registered: March 01, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Do you think This Reactor set-up is safe?

If not what are some of the concerns.


Eek Wow! That's not a reactor. that's a nightmare!

some of the concerns? Let's see...

Stuff laying around everywhere, with a guy handling dangerous chemicals having to jump around.
Wires hanging loose everywhere.
Heater wires exposed.
A power strip just laying around on top of the pump's intake pipe.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, as I'm sure I may have overlooked a few things, but that's more than enough for me. Tell me where this guy lives, so I can move as far away from him as possible! Eek

But, hey... I'm sure he considers his setup completely safe, as I'm also sure he wouldn't appreciate any government "intrusion", in his business...
After all, he has a right to be "indigenous" and "independent"...right?


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Whether or not the reactor set-up is safe isn't an issue.
The important question is whether or not the operator is working safely. This guy loads his own ammunition [notice the reloading equipment on the bench], so he's obviously used to working safely with potentially hazardous materials.

Someone could design the safest reactor in the world, and sure enough some idiot would blow themselves up and burn down the house.

It's impossible to make the world idiot proof, nature will always create a better idiot.

This forum has demonstrated ample proof of that.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Sorry to burst your little bubble, but I don't need to pay a road tax, as the fuel I'm producing is for home heating, the electrical is being put in by a Master Electrician certified by the Federal Government to work on high voltage industrial equipment for the military,


You're not bursting anything. I wasn't talking specifically about you. You said there are no laws "against what we're doing" and I just cited some of the laws most homebrewers are breaking.
As for your electrical, you can hire an electrician working for God himself, but you still need to have your setup inspected for code compliance and safety. If not, you're breaking the law.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tilly:
Do you think This Reactor set-up is safe?

If not what are some of the concerns.


.......... the operator. The human factor as I have said before. Perhaps better education?

John,

Great, the guy does his own reloading... I hope as sloppy as he is, the only person firing his ammo is... him. Maybe someone should drop a dime to his old lady... If she knew the risk this guy was taking.... she would double his life insurance. Big Grin

C.


C.


2006 - Jeep Liberty CRD - Wife drives
 
Location: New England | Registered: July 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello John
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
The important question is whether or not the operator is working safely. This guy loads his own ammunition [notice the reloading equipment on the bench], so he's obviously used to working safely with potentially hazardous materials.
An interesting bit of logic there. Because the fellow owns the equipment to re-load amunition he's obvously used to working safely and so his biodiesel set-up is safe.
If someone owns a helicopter does that mean he can fly it safely.
Hint look at this post






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If someone has a brain, does that mean they can use it safely?
quote:
Here, hold my beer and watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S7FUbkbaeQ



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
If someone has a brain, does that mean they can use it safely?



Only with valid permits and adequate liability insurance.

I really don't see what a YouTube clip of an Arabic stunt driver has to do with brewing safety and the laws that ALREADY govern it.

You guys seem to think that a Homebrewers Alliance will somehow create laws that currently don't exist. There are plenty of laws that already cover this stuff, both in Canada and down in the States.

With no intended insult, it reveals ingnorance for anyone to say that brewing laws don't exist. Chemical handling laws, electrical codes and fire codes already exist. How does ignoring their existance make illegal (non-permitted) brewing to somehow be legal?

Wishful thinking and wishful delusions are neighbours.
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I really don't see what a YouTube clip of an Arabic stunt driver has to do with brewing safety and the laws that ALREADY govern it.

I expected you of all people to see the obvious. One can have the safest equipment in the world, and all sorts of laws to supposedly prevent it's misuse, but there is no way that will preclude stupidity. Some people push the envelope and get lucky, some don't. That's human nature.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I think the last couple of pages of comments demonstrates the exact reason the notion of Bio'ers creating their own regulations is such an amusing idea!

People can't even agree on the form of the concept itself let alone what the actual standards may be or apply to!

Given the level of this Discussion, deciding on what type of light bulb and switch could be installed in a processing area would cause a level of in fighting that would bring the whole idea down!




You are certainly right about the obvious observable dissention DCS, but the process of developing officially accepted safe brewing codes will NOT be based on homebrewer whimsy. If it ever actually happens at all, it will be developed based on existing federal, state, county and municipal fire, electrical and HazMat codes.

Basically, a user-friendly condensed standard of all the applicable codes and regs would be written and compared to manufacturers specs of commonly available equipment currently in use to find the safest and most univerally acceptable reactor system configurations.

The Dresden reactor configuration won't be acceptable... (LOL)
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If I am not mistaken

Haven't the fellows who are on this forum trying to make a quick buck decided that doing things safely is too expensive?






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
The Dresden reactor configuration won't be acceptable...


I don't think that'd be a problem. For what I can see, the Chernobyl model seems to be far more popular...


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Haven't the fellows who are on this forum trying to make a quick buck decided that doing things safely is too expensive?


Yep. And that's exactly what needs to be changed.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
quote:
quote:
I really don't see what a YouTube clip of an Arabic stunt driver has to do with brewing safety and the laws that ALREADY govern it.

I expected you of all people to see the obvious. One can have the safest equipment in the world, and all sorts of laws to supposedly prevent it's misuse, but there is no way that will preclude stupidity. Some people push the envelope and get lucky, some don't. That's human nature.



Okay, it's true that there will always be someone who breaks laws and or safety codes, and that's exactly what we're talking about here.

Did the stunt driver crash? No. So, was he driving safe? Yes and no. He clearly had the skills to push the envelope the auto maker set forth, but he had no right to do so on a public roadway.

Legal Eagle made a good point that laws vary wildly from one geographic jurisdiction to the next. That point may fail to take into account that while a brewer may be observing city or state laws, he/she may still be violating federal laws, or vice versa.

All I'm saying is that I think the entire diesel biofuels community would benefit from easy access to a standardised distillation of existing regs with any necessarry appendices that represent any state, county or city variances of the overall code, THAT'S ALL.

I'm NOT saying that everyone should be forced to become registered members and I'm not saying that everyone should donate funds. I AM saying that everyone interested in participating in diesel biofuels (blending, SVO, brewing) should have easy access to ALL the applicable laws so they can comply IF and WHEN the CHOOSE TO.

There was nothing threatening intended in this proposed association, on the contrary, it was meant to educate people to the laws that already exist and help people comply for the obvious benefits that come with compliance.



I think that the municipal regs will be the toughest. When I spoke with a local city hall, I was told that any brewer would need to get an engineer to write up a fully detailed drawing and certify the safety of the entire system as drawn. The standard was essentially identical to opening a new gas station. A costly obstacle indeed. They even wanted stuff like double containment. Blast radius estimates were also required in order to ascertain danger to neighbouring homes.

At least a local group cooperative in the right zoning could afford compliance better than a lone working class brewer in a residential area.

I've also heard that one municipality can be much more stringent than a neighbouring city, who may be relatively sane and easy to deal with. That's where a website with updated municipal regs overlayed across county, state and federal requirements give little people a roadmap to show them whether compliance is even possible for them in their area, and who has already successfully done so.

There, was that so scary?
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
All I'm saying is that I think the entire diesel biofuels community would benefit from easy access to a standardised distillation of existing regs with any necessarry appendices that represent any state, county or city variances of the overall code,

agreed... education is the answer, not legislation



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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