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I will call ti see if there was an "official" cause.

- If I were a guessing man. I might bet on oily rags left in a pile. More likely, a furnace or dryer fire. Behind the garage is the celler. in the celler are things like the furnace and laundry. it was cold out, belt slipped off furnace blower (or broke) and before the overheat themostst tripped the safety shut off the dust/lint caught fire in the duct work.

BTW 5/8" gypsum is all that is required on one side of the garage wall. in the furnace room there only needs to be 5/8" "over the heating appliance" the rest can be open joists.

FWIW - C.


C.


2006 - Jeep Liberty CRD - Wife drives
 
Location: New England | Registered: July 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
How about somebody (or a group of people, with the right contacts) coming up with a "biofuels producers association" of sorts, with the purpose of lobbying before Uncle Sam for things like a tax exemption for biofuels producers, for example, or unified safety regulations?
Just a thought.



That's exactly what I was suggesting Berny. I don't think the NBB cares much about protecting homebrewers rights and doing enough basic safety analysis to come up with some decent guidelins that the feds can make into law. On the contrary, they are likely opposed to any non-commercial brewing.

I know that the idea of brewing laws scares some people, but that's because they aren't willing to start a grassroots political lobby BY HOMEBREWERS FOR HOMEBREWERS so that newbies and idiots will have recognised guidelines to follow. Having guidelines doesn't mean everyone will follow, but at least if they were in place, the feds could crucify the offenders and make a public example of those who think it's okay to endanger their roommates, family members, or neighbours. Eventually, with enough press, even idiots would see the light.

The feds could supply meth distributors with safe brewing pamphlets for homebrewers trying to fly under the radar. Permits and insurance should be cheap and easy to get. An on-line safety knowledge test coupled with a sworn statement of knowledge and compliance should be easilly available to those who would rather avoid uninsured liability. Let's be honest, unless there's a proper permit, any insurance would be worthless.

At least with basic federal guidelines, the Homebrewers Alliance could educate insurers about the reduced risk factor and negotiate affordable coverage. The insurance industry is competitive like any other industry and eventually, affordable, viable insurance would be available to permited/certified homebrewers.
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That's exactly what I was suggesting Berny. I don't think the NBB cares much about protecting homebrewers rights and doing enough basic safety analysis to come up with some decent guidelins that the feds can make into law. On the contrary, they are likely opposed to any non-commercial brewing.


Exactly!
In my experience, nobody will really defend an activity they don't practice. First, because they don't really care about it. They just see it as a means to an end.
And second, because they don't really have the knowledge to understand its implications (advantages, disadvantages, dangers, motivations, etc).
You want somebody to defend homebrewers? Put a homebrewer to it!
Same with safety. How could a politician really understand the dangers of brewing biodiesel? Even the "AL GOREs" in Washington would have a very superficial (if any) knowledge about it.
So, the idea has been submitted. Now, who's gonna make it real?


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

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Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you want someone to rally on the behalf of homebrewers then focus on the companies like bio-pro and Murphy's Machines who make equipment.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
If you want someone to rally on the behalf of homebrewers then focus on the companies like bio-pro who make equipment.


You couldnt slide me in there also? come on!

LOL

I couldnt resist..


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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my misteak, fixed now... Smile



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Originally posted by Murphy:
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought it was code everywhere that there be a firewall between the home and the garage space.

As I understand it, the firewall is supposed to be good for 20 minutes or something like that?

If true, that means the home was already destroyed by the fire and someone just wants to drag the biodiesel processor into the story.

Or am I mistaken about the firewall thing?


This varies state to state. By looking at the photos there is a lot of structure in the garage area left that is unburned. There is heavy burn through in the back left corner on the bottom photo, which means this has been burning the longest. But it is hard to tell looking at the photo, where the fire started. And fire burns up, so it would be really hard to tell with out more photos. This photo is before anyone has put any water on the fire, so anything in the garage would be hard to distinguish exactly what it was after the fire. So unless the home owner admitted that there was a processor there, it would be hard to prove it.

I have done home inspections with my volunteer fire department and found much worse then a bio processor. We found a case of live hand grenades 1 day. People will store things and not give it any thought as to what will happen if a fire happens.

And to support what most people on here have been saying, yes you should not keep anything that is flammable or combustible in your home. And always have a working fire suppression devices handy and smoke detectors that work.

I guess with this I am really lucky, I have a friend that does the processing and I just collect the oil. But still. His processor is at the far end of the yard.
 
Location: West ByGod Virginia | Registered: November 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Murphy:
The world is not what you see but the lens through which you see it.


I see the world through a glass eye....

Darkly.


Illegitimi Non Carborundum
 
Location: Utopia Planitia | Registered: February 25, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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oh goodie!

I got a myopic topic... (a Tilly rant) and spun it positive.

So what do we call this homebrewer's lobby? the BHBA Biodiesel Home Brewer's Association?

Perhaps, the Biodiesel Association (of) Home Brewers? BA-BA?

Biodiesel Unified Brewer-Builders Association BUBBA
I like that one.

C.


C.


2006 - Jeep Liberty CRD - Wife drives
 
Location: New England | Registered: July 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
my misteak, fixed now... Smile


I feel better now. Thank you!


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Is an association of biodiesel equipment manufacturers even feasible in today's competitive dog-eat-dog world?



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think that you can condense the BUBBA acronym down to three letters.

BBA

Biodiesel Brewers Anonymous. Come on, be honest here, admitting you have a biodiesel addiction is the half the battle......

"Hi, my name is Spencnaz and I make biodiesel. *everyone* Hi Spencnaz!"


Illegitimi Non Carborundum
 
Location: Utopia Planitia | Registered: February 25, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Yeah, I used to be addicted to diesel fuel, but I solved that problem. Now I'm addicted to biofuel.

Finding a different fuel to squander doesn't seem like a solution to the problem.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Is an association of biodiesel equipment manufacturers even feasible in today's competitive dog-eat-dog world?



I said: "BY HOMEBREWERS FOR HOMEBREWERS".

There was no commercial connection intended. Selling advertising space on the Alliances website is one thing, endorsing peoples reactors is another.

The plan was to formulate a set of very safe guidelines that will be easy to get official government endorsement for, then get insurance industry players on board. They would love a new market. They are currently getting nothing from homebrewers and an extra #$ per month would be welcomed, they would just need to know that the risk was managed safely and their claims department would hardly ever get involved.

Official endorsement of safety guidelines from a federal government safety authority would go a long way towards securing affordable insurance coverage.
 
Registered: September 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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An Association ? They already tried that, and it isn't working too well. I think it's called the NBB ...



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Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So what about those of us that have to brew in the garage? I have a BioPro and store any additional bio in a 55 gallon steel drum. I normally have no more that 10 galons of methanol stored in 2 carboys and a cubie or two of raw glycerine waiting for methanol recovery. The acid and KOH are in a sealed plastic bucket. I also have 4 HDPE 55 gallon drums of filtered oil on the side of the house.

If the issue is keeping flame away from the bio and ingredients then that's fine. I don't see how this stuff could just spontaneously combust so if the issue is minimizing risk, well that is the issue with everything. I feel very comfortable brewing with the steel BioPro and I have no more methanol in the garage than when I stored gasoline for the lawnmower.

I guess my question is why am I an idiot for brewing in my garage as someone so inartfully wrote earlier in this thread?
 
Location: Hampton, Va | Registered: May 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"I guess my question is why am I an idiot for brewing in my garage as someone so inartfully wrote earlier in this thread?"

Let me see here... You are brewing in your garage attached to your house and don't see that as a problem...

To those of us who can reason with the merits of brewing in a detached building a safe distance from our living residence. I applaud your common sense.

To those who would like to argue brewing in your attached garages. It takes one small unattended leak of any kind to fill a room with methanol vapor. You only need one ignition source after that. Not to mention the vapor spreading to the rest of the house for the rest of the family to breath in.
Statistically speaking... Attached garage brewers are only accidents waiting to happen.
Keep rolling the dice. The odds will catch up to you.
 
Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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An Association ? They already tried that, and it isn't working too well. I think it's called the NBB

my point exactly



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Personally, I think an association is still just asking for an excuse for the government to levie fees and regulations and taxes on those of us who got into this to save money in the first place. Espescially in Mass(TAX)achusetts! I really don't want anyone poking into my private business. I take the safety precautions that are nessasary and my family my neighbors and I will all be safe, because that's how it should be done!!


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Location: Dudley,MA | Registered: December 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I said: "BY HOMEBREWERS FOR HOMEBREWERS".

There was no commercial connection intended. Selling advertising space on the Alliances website is one thing, endorsing peoples reactors is another.

The plan was to formulate a set of very safe guidelines that will be easy to get official government endorsement for, then get insurance industry players on board. They would love a new market. They are currently getting nothing from homebrewers and an extra #$ per month would be welcomed, they would just need to know that the risk was managed safely and their claims department would hardly ever get involved.

Official endorsement of safety guidelines from a federal government safety authority would go a long way towards securing affordable insurance coverage.


Welder: I'm with you 100%. Just a group of biodieselers with the knowledge to formulate a set of safety rules based on REALITY, instead of a bunch of politicians relying only in their "common sense" (providing they have one), would be a huge step forward. If besides that they have the connections to lobby for the implementation of such rules, and, while we're at it, maybe for a tax break for homebrewers, that would be perfect. Once you have those rules made official, the insurance companies would follow.

I even have another possible name for it: the "B.S." (Biodieseler's Syndicate). Big Grin That would be easy to remember (it's already in everybody's mind), and it sounds "mafia", so maybe it would scare the politicians into submission... Wink

quote:
So what about those of us that have to brew in the garage?


Nothing much. A different set of rules could be developed for those brewing in an attached garage. As I said before I don't think brewing in your garage increases the risk of a fire any more than having your car parked in it, but the risk of contaminating the rest of your home with methanol fumes is very real. That said, a set of rules demanding, for example, the equipment to be enclosed in a properly designed and built cabinet, with an outside vent, could be formulated.

quote:
I guess my question is why am I an idiot for brewing in my garage as someone so inartfully wrote earlier in this thread?


No, you're not. (But you may be for different reasons...who knows? Wink)
Saying somebody is an idiot for brewing in their garage is just a stupid generalization (most of them are).
First: you have to see how your house was built. I spent years installing home alarm systems, and so I've seen a lot of differences, from garages fully integrated to the home, and sometimes with a plywood ceiling and a bedroom on top (which pretty much seems to be the case in the picture), to garages that only share a cinder block wall with the rest of the house, going all the way to the roof.
But most importantly, you have to build your setup accordingly. I have seen here setups I wouldn't get close to if my life depended on it, and I've seen setups I'd put in my garage without a second thought.
An association would be great to do that: set different rules for different circumstances, instead of just forbiding something just because it "might" be dangerous.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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