John, with the passage of time you seem to have become a bit confused. Don't you remember back in 2007 when you asked Tilly that very question and Tilly replied to you on 11- 14-2007 "Hello john
No, it is not illegal to home brew biodiesel in oz, just lots of hoops to jump through."
By the way, you might like to check out This website
HTH and all the best.
I wasn't thinking about determining a set of self-imposed standards, but rather getting something put right into the zoning code defining a set rules that are not spelled out at all now, and could be used to stop homebrewing (OK, maybe that's the same thing). Since nobody has yet considered homebrewing on a widespread scale, there is almost NOTHING about any of the stuff we do, leaving that area wide open to be used as leverage to close down homebrewing. I was thinking along the lines of loosely defining:
"Residential property is allowed to contain 500gal of vegetable oil storage per acre."
"Residential property is allowed to contain 120gal of volatile chemical storage per acre."
"Residential property is allowed to contain 500gal of raw glycerin storage per acre."
Setting a "bar", but setting it ourselves, rather than letting someone else set it. Because if my experience with Zoning is at all common, it takes forever to change a law once written. So if we make "first strike", so to speak, and get it on the books, even if somebody later wants to close down private brewing, THEY will have to deal with the meetings and scheduling and proving that change is necessary, as the natural assumption is that the law is good enough until proven wrong.
I hope Beancrusher stops by and comments on zoning issues and getting laws passed.
I think with something loose like that, straight away you are going to run into problems.
I would put forward for instance that the location of where the material is stored and what it is stored in would in fact be more important than the Qty.
Any Guidelines would also have to address the already hotly argued and never agreed upon topic's of heaters, pumps, reactor material, vents etc and that would just be the basics.
The bio world seems to have a plentiful supply of those that have no safety concerns whatsoever to those that insist unless you have spark proof light switches and halon fire extinguishers in a shed with no walls in the centre of a 100sq yd concrete slab a mile from anything else, your courting disaster.
For mine, the most dangerous types are those that come on asking how to wire up a heater element and think if someone tells them where to put what wire they know all there is to know. What's worse, thats only one tiny aspect of the big picture and the thought of what else they might do makes the occurrence of all these fires very predictable.
Trying to get any conformity with these groups without it being mandatory is going to be in my view, mission impossible. If there were any chance of it, there wouldn't be the divisions of opinion there are now nor would there be the amount of accidents and fires.
Tilly was entirely correct in what he said.
Bio brewing is not in any way Illegal anywhere here.
There is a tax supposed to be paid on it which I am only aware of one person in the country doing and it made news because he caused the gov't a great deal of time and money in forcing them to accept his payment which they were not in fact set up for or anyone seemed to know about.
Basically if one wants to use Bio on the road they are -supposed- to pay a tax of 37.5 cents per liter, however if it is for "offroad" use, no tax is payable. No one pays the tax and the govt departments are basically unaware of the law let alone put any effort whatsoever into enforcing it.
My view is that the cost of enforcement would outweigh the revenue generated by a 1000 fold given the relatively tiny amount of brewers here.
In any event, there is no hint of it being illegal or any restriction on the materials required.
Perhaps John was deliberately misquoting Tilly just to get a rise out of people as he has previously said he does.
Why would John Tillman care if the rumor is true or not?This message has been edited. Last edited by: john galt,
Ummm, not sure how that question is even relevant to the context of the what you were saying?? I take it this is just another of your diversionary tactics not to be taken seriously or with any credibility attached thereto. If you were looking to have a shot at Discrediting Tilly, Iin light of the evidence presented, I would say that effort completely backfired.
He probably wouldn't care a damn about any rumor seeing it was you that started said "rumor" based on something you knew not to be true but tried to appropriate the misinformation to him. The Source of the information was in fact to be proven creditable, unlike the dispersions and ridicule you threw at him.
Now, perhaps with that out of the way and the real facts bought to light and the true source of the misinformation identified, we can get back to some creditable and relevant discussion of the topic?
Sooner or later some nanny state is going to make 'homebrew' biodiesel very expensive in terms of the insurance required. Municipalities are also looking for ways to make up for lost revenues so one can expect that permits will be required to make BD. All to protect public safety, of course.
It was difficult, but I resisted the urge to comment originally.
Suffice it to say, I would advise not trying to change zoning ordinances, especially for homebrew.
"Don't complain about farmers with your mouth full."
"Arguing with a government inspector is like wrestling with the pig. You both get dirty but after a while you realize the pig enjoys it".
Home-brewed biodiesel poses risks
That's it ! From now on we have to have CCTV's in ALL homes ... to keep us all safe of course.No telling who will do what with whom if we aren't there to check up on "them" at all times.You just can't trust anyone, so that is now our job.
Reporters need to take a crash course in knowing what they are talking about when publishing articles that tend to inflame; no such thing as unbiased reporting since the supreme court in Florida ruled (in favour of Fox News)that news shows are under no obligation to tell people the truth.
** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.
No Montague, books are the problem, books and the internet, we must ban both, they just give people all manner of strange ideas.
I couldn't agree more with the dangers posed by keeping books inside a structure.
The only safe place would be to keep a few magazines in the outhouse.
Swan Island Library Fire:
There ya go, libraries are a menace to society, they must be tightly regulated or banned, both public and home libraries.
451 degrees Fahrenheit is the temperature at which paper bursts into flame. This adaptation of the classic novel by Ray Bradbury describes a future in which independent thought is discouraged and "firemen" burn books. The population is distracted and sedated by a combination of wall to wall interactive television and mind altering drugs. But one fireman begins to read the books he is supposed to burn....
SHHHH! I live in Massachusetts and they need NO encouragement to find another way of raising revenue. If they know how many home brewers where enjoying energy independence, they would legislate a new biodiesel home brewers tax and set up a new government beaurocracy to regulate it and numerous political hacks who know nothing about biodiesel to staff the new agency.
"This biodiesel tis a cruel and heartless mistress we home brewers have chosen"
Biodiesel setup, garage, shed destroyed in fire in South Berwick
By Jason Claffey
Thursday, February 25, 2010
SOUTH BERWICK, Maine — A fire that ignited near a homemade setup used to convert used vegetable oil into biodiesel fuel burned down a garage, shed, and tent, while scorching the side of a house at 55 Boyds Corner Road early Wednesday morning.
Though the cause of the fire was undetermined, Fire Chief George Gorman said it underscores why there needs to be a code governing home biodiesel conversion setups. Currently, no such code exists.
The fire broke out shortly after 1 a.m. Gorman said the homeowner, a man, awoke to a bang and saw the garage fully involved in flames. Firefighters from South Berwick, North Berwick, and Ogunquit responded and had the fire under control within an hour. Crews from the state Department of Environmental Protection were called in to clean up the spilled fuel.
About 400 gallons of vegetable oil burned, as well as a number of biodiesel containers.
"It smelled like rotten french fries," Gorman said, adding there wasn't a proper containment area for the conversion setup.
He said he could not put a dollar value on the amount of damage the fire caused. Typical garage items like a lawn mower and propane tanks were damaged, and the windows on side of the house closest to the garage were cracked, he said.
What we really need is better tracking of the biodiesel fires...
Causes. Processor Types, Pumps, plumbing, source of the fire, etc.
So many codes seem to be made based on anecdotes, or without any real scientific basis. For example, creating codes based on events that are truly 1 in a million events.
With current building codes, people are often required to do thousands of dollars worth of upgrades to fix things that have lower probability of occurring than winning the lottery.
Yet, it is also obvious that there are many inherent risks in home fuel production.
What we really need is a National Biodiesel Board that is more than a lobby group for soybean farmers.
The problem is that the NBB has very little to do with the "Appleseed" design. They would be just as happy if the homebrewing just went away.
However, I believe there are also too many fires & explosions in the larger plants too which does indicate the NBB has been lax with processor designs and design standards for their own members.
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