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quote:
polyacrylamide

Ant,

I am inclined to also think it is a type or brand of polyacrylamide. It is often used in water treatment as a flocculant/coagulant as per Wiki and also I just remembered looking at the poly drums we get from our local water treatment facility - same thing wiki talks about.

Interestly enough I have been meaning to do a chemical flocculant experiment on a large batch of used cooking oil for over 18 months but we just keep on making biodiesel out of it and our oil just doesn't have that much water in it to make this worthwhile...

I will do a side by side comparison between the two because I'm also interested in the facts - just the facts maam...

However I am away from the facility for a few days and won't be able to until this weekend -- We'll post results then.

Regardless though its great to have another product or business tailoring/directing products to this market and the people of this forum because it is provocative and inspires...

GCG
 
Location: Michigan | Registered: May 08, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Don,

I did some more testing. I don't think it pulled much methanol out. I would expect only 10ml of methanol. as of today I don't think it's gotten all of it out yet.

It does clear up right nice and darken up as well, so I'm guessing it pulled some water out and probably a little methanol.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rick,
That is the same conclusion that I came to with the impure methanol.
I am hoping to do some more experiments to repeat my analysis.
DD
 
Location: NY | Registered: February 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wouldn't that depend on the osmolarity difference of the bio-d and the QnD? (don't flame me for not knowing the exact words)
What I mean is, particle concentration potential inside the QnD is lower than the bio-d resulting in the water moving out of the QnD molecule and over to the bio-d side?



I would never flame you just guessing a word in an honest attempt to communicate.

Yoy may well be right I honestly don't know.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I will do a side by side comparison between the two because I'm also interested in the facts - just the facts maam...


I think the floculants are a straight chain polymer and you want the crosslinked polymer that is used in some plant moisture retention granules. Look for an SG of 1 or above.

soil moist Polyacrylamide is crosslinked with a bisacrylamide and this copolymer is not affected by salts in water or soil.

Is the one to look for. I think this may actually be Q&D.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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soil moist say their standard product cannot tolerate high salt environments.

They say a highly crosslinked polyacrylamide bisacrylamide copolymer is what is needed but they can't produce any at the moment due to long term production commitments.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I actually would prefer the crystal/gel to be mineral tolerant and actually even absorb them as well.

When first looking into these super absorbents I was really encouraged by this possibility since its just one more level of purification as far as I was concerned.

Additionally we have several sources of used cooking oil where being intolerent of salt could be a problem however if your not worried about introducing water anymore because QnD can remove it effectively then I'm not opposed to washing my oils impurities out... Just don't use Brine!

GCG
 
Location: Michigan | Registered: May 08, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Did you try sprinkling salt heavily on a small bit of saturated QnD? What happened?


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Ant:
Did you try sprinkling salt heavily on a small bit of saturated QnD? What happened?


I have some of the stuff I got sprinkled with a lot of regular table salt and it seems like there is a lot more water transfer to the salt and the paper towel. In the course of about 5 mins or so it seems to have lost about a 1/4 of its size.

I also have a piece of it just on a paper towel at work in the air conditioning just seeing how long it will take before it is dry again.


quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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After about 30 minutes or so.



quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids


ImageDSC00227.JPG (21 Kb, 571 downloads)
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Paul,

I think you'll find like I did. It sticks to the paper towel Smile It's easy to removed, but the stuff likes to fly around when scraping it off the towel.

I put mine inside a 1 gallon ziplock bag and shook it and scraped it off in the bag.

It is really easy to get off (not like it was glued), but I didn't want to lose any of the QnD.

Nice results on the salt issue. That could be an easy way to do a *turbo* drying of the QnD when you need it again in a hurry!

- JC

PS- Paul, FYI- if you use the "Display Image" button in the toolbar when making a post, it will show the picture in the thread.
 
Location: Western PA | Registered: August 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So far it has not gotten stuck to the paper towel. What I have noticed is after it starts to go opaque in color it seems that water loss has slowed a lot. Currently it is about 1/2 it's original size and the other "control" piece is about 1/4 down in size.


quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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It sticks to the paper towel. It's easy to removed, but the stuff likes to fly around when scraping it off the towel.

I found that a small paint brush worked great for moving Q&D around on the towel and herding it back into the container.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So we now know it is not a high salt resistant type so not a bis-acyrylamide with high levels of crosslinking. Sounds like the same results you would get with a garden soil gel. A medium crosslinked polyacrylamide with a pottasium polyacrylate copolymer.

How did it stand up physicaly to the salting? Kept its grain size? Didn't go to goo? Repeated wetting and drying cycles can apparantly fracture polyacrylamide crystals into smaller grains. Easy enough to cope with by the use of layered screens to observe when it happens and by how much but something you need to be aware of.

Just to be sure though was this QnD and has anyone with QnD replicated the result?


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ok well I came back to work and the piece that I did not "salt" was dried back down to its original size and yes according to john galt it's pretty stuck to the paper towel.

The piece that was "salted" has not changed in size it seems that the salt has made a layer on the outside that is restricting the water from evaporating.

So for drying I would use parchment paper from the bakery section or some other non-stick surface to dry this stuff out on.

1.How did it stand up physicaly to the salting?
At first the water came out of it fast. Then it turned opaque on the outside.

2.Kept its grain size?
It kept it's shape more or less.

3.Didn't go to goo?
Nope no goo.

Salt did not destory it I will wash the salt off and see if it dries competely.


quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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yes according to john galt it's pretty stuck to the paper towel.

My comments might have been misunderstood. I've found that Q&D grains from my fuel drying test column shed most of the biofuel onto the paper towel and DO NOT stick to the towel or other grains as they quickly dry in open air.

I have not tested the Q&D crystals with pure water or with salt as those are not substances I add to my fuel during processing, and thus the results of reaction with pure water or salt is not of interest to me.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So we now know it is not a high salt resistant type so not a bis-acyrylamide with high levels of crosslinking.

Dear ANT
You do not know what QnD is whether it's a polymer cross-linked with bis-acyrylamide or simply Jello gelatin cross-linked with pea soup. Frankly, up to a few weeks ago you didn’t even know what an absorbent was and apparently even with your vast store of scientific knowledge you were still unclear about what a SALT was until last week when you had to be educated by a poster who had become tired of your trolling.

By coming to this board with QnD, we have move the knowledge frontier in five weeks more than you have in your five years of postings, and you have offended us so much that we are thinking of no longer providing previews of our products on this forum. What does that say about you and how much you are working for biodieselers?

ANT your interest is not the pursuit of knowledge it’s the pursuit of attention. You seem like a lonely person cooped up in you basement crying out for attention. Apparently you have spoken with some superabsorbent wizard in the UK and your knowledge far exceeds everyone else’s. Why don’t you take that knowledge create a thread that does not reference QnD (stand on your own two feet without using our product as a crutch for getting attention) and discuss those innovative UK absorbents?

Be the leader you think you are, move the subject matter forward on your own independent thread and quit being a TROLL.
 
Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well in all respect I think that I have moved this thread off course on my posts and I will stop if there is further interest I will start another one with my experiements. The product that I have is not Quick'n'Dri but a soil additive for water retention.


quote:
Originally posted by Murphy: In short, this place is like a multi-dimensional bull$hit detector on steroids
 
Location: In the Pacific Somewhere | Registered: January 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hi Folks
As promised we have made Quik ‘n’ Dri™ available via your favorite biodiesel supplies retailers. Please visit the link below to be taken to these retailers’ order pages.

http://biodiesel.coorga.com/Quik_Order_Page.htm

We are committed to supplying products that improves the process for producing biodiesel. In accord with this mission please keep an eye out in the coming days /weeks for additional product(s) announcements.

Staff & Management
Coorga Int’l Trading
 
Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Seeing as my site took a dump yesterday and part of today (and I'm just FINALLY getting it moving again), here's the link to my Quik N Dri page..

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/quikndri.php

Enjoy!
-Graydon




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Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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