BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Dewatering/Drying Washed Biodiesel    Water wash then dry wash???
Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Water wash then dry wash???
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
John, if you know what you're doing dry wash works fine for wvo..if you dont know what your doing, you will screw your resin, and your engine. Same as water washing..depending on the quality of your oil, either your dry wash or water wash process may have to change slightly.. for learning biodiesel i would not suggest going straight to dry washing.

Legal Eagle has been using his same batch of purolite for over a year now and having great results. And not one drop of water in that time.

I think if you're going to use water, use water.. if your going to dry wash..then dry wash..You can 'polish' just as well with water, so why add on complexity and big money to the tail of your process. Many use only water washing and produce ASTM fuel..
 
Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
posted by Biotom:
Why not ask biogirlz how much dry washing biodiesel has cost her!!!.
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Dry washing didn't cost her a dime. But her own mistakes did.

Did she...


Understand the process completly? NO

have a proper distiller NO

allow bio to settle for soap dropout NO


Biotom, i agree with alot that you have to say, but on this point...
 
Registered: June 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
if you know what you're doing dry wash works fine for wvo..if you dont know what your doing, you will screw your resin, and your engine. Same as water washing..depending on the quality of your oil, either your dry wash or water wash process may have to change slightly.. for learning biodiesel i would not suggest going straight to dry washing.

Did you mean "if you know what you're doing dry wash works fine for biodiesel " not wvo ? If so then it's a good point, and I concur.

My objection is with encouraging the inexperienced to somehow avoid the perceived complexity of water washing by using expensive 'dry wash' materials instead. This promotes the misunderstanding that pouring separated BD through a column of magic resins or woodchips automatically makes perfect biodiesel. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I have no doubt that experienced operators like LE know how to use 'dry wash' correctly, and that's because he completely understands the biodiesel process [and it's limitations] and isn't just following a recipe blindly.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
sorry yes your right.. i meant biodiesel from wvo feedstock. Using virgin oil feedstocks would be nice in a perfect world.. would make dry washing a little bit easier thats for sure
 
Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Chug:

I should add that 1 or 2 folks using the demeth and settle method do run the settled bio through ecopure or woodchips or similar, for as they say, a 'final polish' but I don't find it necesary, and some still like to do 5 -7% prewash after demething but before draining glyc.


Thats interesting Ive never thought about that. Sounds like a good idea. Have you heard much feedback on this process?

Also, I know you've probably answered this before, but do you know your soap ppm after settling and filtering?
 
Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Reece

which bit do you mean dry wash media or prewash after demeth?
I've never done either, but those that do seem to be happy with final polish with ecopure/woodchips, reasons I've heard are,

My oil is bad quality so still needs prewash to help remove soap and final polish with ecopure/woodchips just to be sure.

My motor is only 6 months old I want to make sure my fuel is good quality/clean as possible.

As for soap PPM, NO I havent any figures myself, but get really clear shake em up tests, and those that do test usually claim good numbers, I think it was Fabricator on here who reported less soap than usual on the same wvo, method etc and the only difference was WBD.


*************************
1991 Transit Tipper
1991 Mercedes 709D

*************************
http://www.wastevegoildacorum.co.uk

The Biodiesel wiki
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki

 
Location: S.E. England | Registered: September 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I meant on the 5% prewash after demething. What a good idea hey. Get the methanol out, then do some 5% prewash for a bit of a clean up. I have to try that.

Another question about demething.. you leave your pump on when demething right??

Ive been doing the same thing, but on top of the biodiesel I get this foamy froth. Do you get this too?

Its not like dish soap froth which is nice and fluffy and you can pop.. This stuff is more stringy and slimy froth. Has a kinda gross feel to it. I scoop it out.
 
Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
...and the best you can do is a personal attack? Not much credibility in shooting at the messenger. Just proves that your claims are meaningless if you have to attack the messenger to support your opinion. Somebody obviously feels threatened by truth. That's so pathetic.
If you want to carry on with believing that dry washing gives you clean BD then good for you. However every time you try to claim that it's as good or better than water washing in terms of BD quality then you will be challenged, because it's simply not true. Anyone who values their vehicle can browse the forums and find lots of horror stories involving so called 'dry washing' and the expensive repairs it causes. The facts speak for themselves.


Its not attacking the messenger, its being tired reading the same message over and over from someone who obviously has an axe to grind. As for being 'threatened by the truth' what truth are you talking about? I water washed for well over a year so if its better why would I change to something else - just to irritate you?

'The facts speak for themselves'? Eh? Maybe one time you can come out with a fact or two instead of your repetitive dogma.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Just came from a biodiesel demostration, from start to finish, and into the fuel tank in 8 hr!! holy chit. this process used single base, followed by a simple repo, 10 ml meth and 1 gr koh/ltr just to mop up any remaining fa's. during this process, the temp is increased and the batch is demethed at the same time. then 4 water washes, each one useing the water from the previous wash ei new water for the 4th wash and work it back to first wash. this water is the most used , and is disposed of in the demethed by-product. the bio now travels through 3 resin towers, and into the fuel tank. No electric heaters in any process, all heat is from biodiesel bioler and plate type heat exchangers. fuel quatity is checked on a chromogragh(I think that's what he called it) I am soooo impressed . It seems then, that there is a place for water wash and ion towers to work hand in hand. Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
reece,

yes pump is left on throughout demeth, and I don't know about froth as my processor is sealed and I cannot see inside, but nothing has shown up when I check now and then via sight gauge.

I used to get some foaming on the odd batch when demething just the glyc though before I switched to WBD.


*************************
1991 Transit Tipper
1991 Mercedes 709D

*************************
http://www.wastevegoildacorum.co.uk

The Biodiesel wiki
http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki

 
Location: S.E. England | Registered: September 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Biotom I agree, if you want to produce start to finish biodiesel in a day, water washing is super quick. Much faster than settling soaps. Then using a descicant ion exchange resin to final polish and remove water, definately..
 
Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
You wouldnt need to use ion exchange resin to remove water if it wasnt added in the first place. And thats not the purpose of ion exchange resin. If I was inclined I could also make a batch of biodiesel in less than three hours using a dry wash method.

There are different methods of dry washing just as there are different methods of water washing, each with their its own pros and cons. I would say tho that if I had gone to all the trouble to water wash I wouldnt be wanting to then splash out money on ion exchange resin.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Yeh Ion exchange resins arent meant for removing water.. however purolite seem to always throw it into there advertising how it acts as a desiccant. Theres no way I would be using my purolite for water removal after forking out for 500 bucks worth of resin!
 
Registered: March 02, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
evangelos keep it simple learn to water wash successfully first then graduate to dry wash. and remember gentle, gentle, then aggressive, and more aggressive.If you are too gentle with the later washes you will take a lot of washes to get all the soap out. I don't use 40% of the volume of bio in water I use 25% and a max of 30% and this is for each wash. consider the drywash after you get your GL processor working.
quote:
Biotom
Member

Posted 13 August 2009 07:26 PM Hide Post
Just came from a biodiesel demostration, from start to finish, and into the fuel tank in 8 hr!! holy chit. this process used single base, followed by a simple repo, 10 ml meth and 1 gr koh/ltr just to mop up any remaining fa's. during this process, the temp is increased and the batch is demethed at the same time. then 4 water washes, each one useing the water from the previous wash ei new water for the 4th wash and work it back to first wash. this water is the most used , and is disposed of in the demethed by-product. the bio now travels through 3 resin towers, and into the fuel tank. No electric heaters in any process, all heat is from biodiesel bioler and plate type heat exchangers. fuel quatity is checked on a chromogragh(I think that's what he called it) I am soooo impressed . It seems then, that there is a place for water wash and ion towers to work hand in hand. Tom

Biotom I am real interested in this demostration you saw you care to start a new thread so we dont hyjack this one thanks Marvin
 
Registered: August 30, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Marvin
- Pm me if you want more info. I have invited Dr Rex Newkirk, Director of Biofuels & Feed, via email, to check in at this site to see what we are up to. So I hope he has time to share his knowledge. (www.cigi.ca is the web site) Tom


" I don't know what I don't know until I know"
1994 GMC 6.5 Tubo 2005 Dodge ram 3500, 3 VW's 2000, 2002, 2005.
 
Location: Manitoba Canada | Registered: March 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member

posted Hide Post
Dry washing with hard wood chips works, period. I just finished an interview with ac ommercial producer that is using the method and before doing so did numerous lab test just to see if in fact it would hold up, ad it did better than expected.Start out point 800ppm will go to zero in a single pass at full flow rate. Higher requires slowing down the flow rate but the end result is still zero ppm soaps.

His fuel is always double processed and settled prior to chips and tested along the way to besure that what is going ot the door is up to snuff.

IMO setting up a tank or drum of wood chips prior to resin beds gives you the best of both worlds. Water doesn't have to be removed if there isn't any to start with, and the little produced during reaction will drop into the glyc layer.

I have never once prewashed my fuel, although I do settle it well and demeth it as well, and resettle before taking it through Purolite resin beds. I am still on the first lot of resin I put in there at the begining of last year's production run, but when I do swap it out I'll be adding a wood chip tank into the equasion.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Legal Eagle I an interested in this woodchip setup. Is this setup 4 55 gallon drums in series with a capacity of 5 lpm. Or is it 2 different lines of 2 drums in series with a capacity of 2.5 lpm each totaling 5 lpm capacity. Could you describe the drums and the plumbing.
 
Registered: August 30, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
His fuel is always double processed and settled prior to chips and tested along the way to besure that what is going ot the door is up to snuff.... I have never once prewashed my fuel, although I do settle it well and demeth it as well, and resettle before taking it through Purolite resin beds.
That's why you and others have success with 'dry wash'. I suspect that the demething and settling is the primary reason for column processing success. Those who think 'dry washing' is a quick and easy shortcut, and take the biodiesel from separation and immediately run it through dry wash processing, are going to be expensively disappointed with the end result.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
That's why you and others have success with 'dry wash'. I suspect that the demething and settling is the primary reason for column processing success. Those who think 'dry washing' is a quick and easy shortcut, and take the biodiesel from separation and immediately run it through dry wash processing, are going to be expensively disappointed with the end result.

Utterly untrue. This crusade against dry washing by someone who has never tried it is wearisome. What 'expense' are you talking about - I find it cheaper than water washing. I dont demeth and only wait overnight for residual glycerol to drop out, and thats only to prolongue the mediums life . I usually start a batch about 8pm in the evening and have finished biodiesel coming thru the dry wash in the morning. If I wanted I could do a batch from start to finish in three hours. The only expense I incur is the cost of the power to heat the oil and run the pumps. If youre talking about expensive damage to my cars I powered one for two years with dry washed biodiesel and I encountered no problem due to the fuel. In fact, it never even needed a fuel filter change - I changed two at routine servicing while they were still working fine. If you know better lets hear it, and not just some story youve heard. If we believed the stories going around we'd all still be paying thru the nose at the pumps.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jehu,
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi all,
I am fairly new to this and have been water washing, I have now got some Ecopure to try and I need to know how to prepare the ecopure with methanol before use and what is the easiest vessel to make for the filtering process, size, plans etc.
cheers
RC
 
Registered: June 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Dewatering/Drying Washed Biodiesel    Water wash then dry wash???

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014