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Making Glycerine byproduct fire logs
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Hey everyone,

I am planning to do glycerine pre washes and then recover methanol.

After that, I'd like to combine the glycerine with sawdust to make into logs to burn in our wood furnace that we use to heat our house.

Anyone do something like this? This seems like a really logical way to get rid of large amounts of glycerol.

Oh, and of course I am making soap, just not a 55 gallons worth :-)

I am worried about:
1.) fumes it will give off, if any
2.) accelerated chimney gunk buildup

Thanks,
Mike


150L batch GL Processor *now online and producing*
'82 and '85 M-B 300D's


 
Location: Boston, MA | Registered: April 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do it in our basement wood boiler. When the chimney is clean, and there is a good draft going, we get very little blow back of smoke/fumes when opening the door to the boiler. A hot fire seems to be best is the consensus here. I get a good bank of coals going and then throw it on top of that.

We get our milk in the cardboard 1/2 gallon containers. When empty I load them up with the glycerin saw dust and fold the tops closed. You can fit 8 of them inside a cubie box for storage. I am in the process of cutting up 8 cords of wood right now, so we should have plenty of glycerin logs this year....
 
Registered: March 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am planning the same thing for this winter. I will be trying a few variations. In addition to sawdust I will also be trying shredded paper. I am also going to try using cardboard carpet tubes as well as milk cartons. I've got about 200 gallons of glycerol, and will be making some soap, but certainly not that much.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One byproduct of partly burned glycerine, or from WVO, is acrolein. It is a serious lung irritant. Harmful at 2ppm.

I am not sure how stable it is in the environment, but suspect it is not persistent.


Very high temp is needed to get a clean burn, from what I gather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was hoping to burn the stuff also.
I do a prewash. I do not recover methanol.
If I just put glycerine on the sawdust/ newspaper..(and in the cartons) will the water evaporate out? (if I leave the folds open) Water works its way out of wood when you cut it . (seasoned)
Wags
 
Location: waterloo, il | Registered: July 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not long ago, there was a program on the Science Channel about a company called "Terra Cycle", which is selling, among other things, a product called "fire logs", which is made from sawdust and cardboard waste. Check it out:

http://www.terracycle.net/firelog.htm


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Andrew,

From reading that wikipedia on Acrolein I got the impression that the Acrolein was released at 280C, 536F.

Do you have any idea how we can remove the Acrolein or neutralize it?

I'm up north and for the amount of BD we produce, if we could safely make these heating logs we could help a lot of people.


If we can't neutralize the Acrolein, what would be a safe condition to burn these? 2ppm of Acrolein was listed as dangerous, and that's pretty rough.

Let me know what you think,
Ryan
 
Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was reading a bit more on acrolein. If you look at the same wikipedia article, it seems to indicate that acrolein is really unstable and decomposes very quickly.

Lots of good info here:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts124.html

From the above website:
"Acrolein is a colorless or yellow liquid with a disagreeable odor. It dissolves in water very easily and quickly changes to a vapor when heated. It also burns easily. Small amounts of acrolein can be formed and can enter the air when trees, tobacco, other plants, gasoline, and oil are burned."

I feel like this must be a non-issue. If it was, we would have hear about it a lot more by now.

Mike


150L batch GL Processor *now online and producing*
'82 and '85 M-B 300D's


 
Location: Boston, MA | Registered: April 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just wanted to add a follow-up to my original post here. My burning of glycerol by-product logs has been going very well. At this point I am not demething my glycerol, and am doing a 5% prewash, so methanol and water are both present in the logs. As far as acrolein is concerened, I haven't detected even the faintest of odors from it. I am starting with a good hot wood fire of at least 400 degrees and then adding a glycerol log. They put out a quite a bit of heat, not like hardwood, but still quite good. I am burning in a fully enclosed woodstove.

I am currently mixing one part shredded paper, one part hardwood chips, and sufficient glycerol to moisten, but not drench the mixture. I am packing the mixture into foot long sections of cardboard carpet tubing and closing the ends with crumpled newspaper. I really need to improve my process for making the logs, because it is time consuming and messy. I am thinking about some sort of trough set up with a 2 inch funnel opening at the end to facilitate packing the tubes. Any one have any ideas on that?

Also, are there any opinions as to disposal of ashes from these fires? In the past my ash has always gone into my garden.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Al,

I am planning on getting this going. i have been doing a lot of soapmaking in the meantime.

i think if you could set up a small methanol recovery system it would make things less messy. You could pour hot de-methed glycerine out of the still directly into molds or paper tubes with your wood chip / paper mixture. This would harden and then could be safely stacked and burned when the time was right.

the recovered methanol (with water - don't reuse for bio processing) could be used a a lighter fluid for starting the stove.

Mike



As far as ashes, Id have no reason to think these ashes would be any more hazardous than regular wood ashes. I have read about folks here feeding de-methed glycerine to cattle.

Mike


150L batch GL Processor *now online and producing*
'82 and '85 M-B 300D's


 
Location: Boston, MA | Registered: April 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It works great! Go for it.
I've been heating my house for several days now on nothing but homemade sawdust logs.
Originally I made them as a way to deal with the glop and goo and pieces of french fries at the bottom of the barrel but it works with glycerin as well. I usually go through 2 armloads of firewood per night to keep the whole house heated but these logs put out a lot of heat and last much longer. I've been averaging 5 logs to keep the house warm for 18 hours.

What I did: Tons of free sawdust from Lowe's hardware as well as cardboard carpet rolls. I sawed up the carpet rolls into 18" lengths, mixed the glop and sawdust in a big bin and then simply packed the result into the cores. I simply stood them on end on the concrete, filled them and punched it down as I filled. Even by hand I was able to pack them tight enough to hold together while burning.
The smell of the slop was worse than the smell of the smoke - which was not bad at all. But, since I have a sealed wood stove, we don't get smoke in the house so it isn't an issue.
 
Registered: July 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A few comments...

mixing sawdust/woodchips with demythed glycerin and making into logs works well.

I find that uncompressed glycerin saw dust burns better than compressed.. this is in fireplace insert.

I also find it easier to make the logs from sawdust/chips mixed with demythed glycerin rolled into the cardboard boxed surrounding the veggie oil 'cubie' containers..

also the glycerin logs don't leave the embers that a normal log leaves..They burn HOT!! I have a thermal couple monitoring air temps heating the leaving air using glylogs..its easy to see 450+F vs 300f with logs..

so they do work..
they use extra glyercin -- but not all. I can make 6 logs from 4 gallons of glycerin..not so good since one methanol recovery results in 40 gallons of glycerin.. I cannot use this many logs..maybe you can.if you can go for it.

they burn HOT! compared to wood that is

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I have been following this tread with interest
For the last couple of months I have been burning glycerol and sawdust mix
I use koh in my process; I don’t do a pre wash as such ’ as I use the first lot of glycerol’ usually about 35 to 40 litres to lower and dewater my next batch . The glycerol that I recover from this pre-treatment of the waste oil; will be a lot thicker than normal
If left to cool it will almost harden like glycerol from Naoh
I burn this in a wood gasifying boiler
temperature in the secondary combustion chamber; can be as high as 1200 degree C
If you can leave out the pre wash; I would think that you would get a better burning log .


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Still wondering if anyone has any ideas on automating the glycerol log making process. I'm using KOH based glycerol from a 5% prewash process. It is soupy. I cut a plastic drum in half lengthwise to make a mixing trough. I mix up the the wood chips/sawdust/shredded paper and glycerol with a hoe and then trowel it into the carpet tubing sections. Messy and time consuming.

To improve upon that I built a rack that will hold half a dozen tubes upright and then put a piece of 4" PVC cut in half on top. The PVC has 2" holes spaced to deliver the mixture into the carpet tubes. This allows me to trowel in the mixture more easily. Less messy, but still time consuming. Just looking for more ways to save time and effort.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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what would be a good method for burning glycerine in a 55 gallon barrel?

I have a concrete slab out back that I can sit a barrel on and burn some access glycerine. what would be a good glycerine/wood ratio?

Since I am in South Florida, I will not be using it for heat, instead just for the disposal of glycerine.

Danny


05 CRD and 07 Dodge 2500. Both on B100
 
Location: Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: November 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by B100Hans:
Let me know when you are burning your excess Glycerine...actually you won't have to, I will be able to see you doing that right from my house... Eek

Similar to this:

 
Location: Fort Myers area, sw FL | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Let me know when you are burning your excess Glycerine...actually you won't have to, I will be able to see you doing that right from my house... Eek

Similar to this:

[/QUOTE]
 
Location: Fort Myers area, sw FL | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
what would be a good method for burning glycerine in a 55 gallon barrel?


Danny: burning is definitely NOT a good way to dispose of your glycerin. It will probably get you fined, big time.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Just an update on using glycerine for fire logs. I have been burning them regularly for about a year and a half in my woodstove with good results. I just cleaned my chimney after a season and a half of burning and found not a trace of creosote or other buildup, just a little bit of ash. I start with a good hot wood fire and then add the sawdust glycerol logs, alternating with wood each time I restoke the fire. Acrolein is not a problem. If it is forming at these high temperatures, it is going right up the chimney. However, I still would not recommend doing this in an open fireplace. I no longer use the carpet tubes, having switched to waxed half gallon milk cartons. Easier and cleaner.

This has been a great way to use the energy contained in the glycerol and dispose of excess byproduct in a useful manner. I have also reserved some byproduct for soapmaking this year.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am heading into year 3 of burning G.A.S. logs as we call them (Glycerine And Sawdust)
I cut the tops off the 1/2 gallon cartons (from milk, juice, etc.), pack them into cardboard boxes (used for apples, potatoes etc. at a grocery store). The open cartons pack neatly into 4 rows of 5. Find the right size box that holds it all snugly. When close together, you can broadcast the sawdust and/or glycerine in very quickly. I usually make 3 of these boxes at a time, thus 60 G.A.S. logs. Takes about half an hour. Shavings mixed with sawdust is best.

Method:
Use razor to quickly remove tops from cartons.
fill with sawdust,
pack down to below 3/4 level
pour glycerine on, do not overflow
allow to settle and then fill to top with sawdust again
pack once more
"top-off" with glycerine
let sit as long as possible to allow dust to soak up gly.

Warnings:
Pour-out test: break one open and see what you have.
No spills allowed in your living room!
Hot fire only! (as others have warned).
Add a wood log along with G.A.S logs to keep some coals.
Watch your stove and add more before stove cools off.
Control fumes to keep them out of the living space.


homebrewin' in the humid Northwest
 
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA | Registered: January 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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