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Cardboard+Glycerine=Fuel logs?
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I was emptying my cubees, saving some of the conatainers for glycerine storage/disposal (KOH)and compressing and bagging the others for trash collection.

I started tearing up some of the carboard boxes to use for starting fires in the fireplace, and I got to thinking about ways to try and burn some of this glycerine.

I have read about glycerine logs, and was always concerned about the logs melting as they heat up and getting everything in the fireplace "gooey".

Started to think about the cardboard, soaked in glycerine, maybe compressed somehow. Maybe even sawdust mixed in. Use some type of mold like PVC pipe and a plunger in an attempt to compress the stuff so it would bind together. Maybe even some type of cheap burnable binding agent (which I have no idea of). I hve read about the use of cardboard milk cartons, but those are rare here in the US nowadays (plastic is the norm).

Sure would be nice to find a way to make some logs that don't get runny when heated. I am aware of the need to demeth and burn the glycerine at proper temps.

Who is burning glycerine in the fireplace? What are the problems you encounter? How about creosote buildup?

My fireplace is a sealed wood burning insert that consumes outside air, so the only exposure would only be when replenishing the fire and cleaning out ashes when cool. Any ideas? KD
 
Location: Southeast Michigan | Registered: December 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are people here that burn the glycerine in logs. The method is to pack the glycerine on milk containers with sawdust and then introduce them to an already hot fire. A smouldering fire won't work as the glyc will give off the toxin
acrolein.
I have tested burning some glycerine in a turk type burner and it does a fine job with a little methanol (recovered of course) as an ignition promoter.This test was conducted outside,although bringing it indoors would require a more secure method of burning, such as the logs you are planning on.
If you have plenty of sawdust and plenty of empty 1 litre milk cartons this may offr you an option worth exploring.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have access to sawdust from work, and we give our daughter only organic milk which usually comes in paper cartons.

My wife's job leaves us with tons of leftover carboard boxes at the house.

I think I'm going to try lining a box with wax paper and filing it up with sawdust and glycerine when I get the fireplace going.

Also, for a binder, most "logs" you buy at the store are recycled wood pulp with a binder. They just put a pretty paper wrapper around it to look nice.
 
Location: Ohio | Registered: August 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't see to many cardboard milk cartons in my area. I have found them for OJ, but they have the plastic pour spout.

I would still have a problem with the glycerine running all over as I use KOH and my glycerine is runny.

Two schools of thought: some type of agent that can be mixed with the glycerine to turn it into a geltin or a some what solid state. Gelatin? Plaster of Paris? (sorry, that what I meant by "some type of binding agent"). Some type of binding agent to cause the glyc. to set to a solid state.

The other thought is a pan that can contain the glycerine and be placed in the bottom of the firebox. Once again, just something to prevent from running all over getting in between and under the firebrick. But that would end up as just a fill it once and wait for the fire to go out before filling again. Thinking out loud. KD

There is only so much weed killer I can use, and weeds are not a problem when winter gets here. KD
 
Location: Southeast Michigan | Registered: December 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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KD, what you are suggesting is a type of pot stove arrangement. It works, but you will have to devise a method of continual flow as it burns as adding cold to burning glyc will cause it to volcano if done in any bulk amounts, so a slow continual flow would be best.Leave the methanol in it, of course,as an accelerator. Maybe hooking up a gravity fed mist spray into the "bowl" would work, dunno. I have no experience in this stuff other than having toyed some with a turk type burner outside, so take it for what it is, an opinion.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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kd460, I burn the glycerine logs in my indoor woodburner. I first remove the methanol via distilation than mix the glycerine with sawdust in a bucket, then pack it in brown paper bags which are cheap. I assume if one were to mix it to runny, with to much glycerine it may seep through the bag, I haven't had this problem. The logs burn very much like wood but a bit hotter. I have noticed no build up in the chimney from this practice. It seems that there are a few clinkers in the ashes afterwards which are no big deal. Good luck dave
 
Registered: March 22, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I hope people don't think Glycerol doesn't burn really well.
We are considering making fire logs by compressing sawdust or chips from a log peeler with glycerin. My idea is a roller mill with the pattern cut into dies, either pellets , or small logs. Both, my buddy who owns the saw mill and I have fair fabrication skill for heavy equipment.

On a different note, we live in the forests of Northern New Mexico, as part of our forest maintenance we burn slash from pruning and thinning. A few weekends back we burned a slash pile near the house so I could incinerate fifty 1/8 full WVO cubbies. They have been building up from a Summer of processing 750 gallons of biodiesel. Basically a bunch of empties plastic 4 1/2 gallon containers, I have recycled as many as I could handle. This included washing them and pushing the empties on everyone who came to see my Appleseed processor. Anyway I wanted to see what they did when I threw them on a super hot fire. I was impressed. Hardly any smoke and the plastics globbed up before it melted. It worked so well I chucked a (one) full cubbie of waste particulate on the fire. It was full of the accumulated crap I didn't put in the processor. At that temperature it burned too, although it was still burning the next day. My yard smelled like a Chinese restaurant for two days. The point is I found out under what conditions the waste from biodiesel production disappears.

Now I will focus on using the byproducts in a wood burning stove. After living in the rough for thirty plus years it will be a luxury to burn a liquid in the wood stove.
Brian Rodgers


Brian Rodgers

Home of the biodiesel drinking bears.
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Location: Northeastern New Mexico | Registered: October 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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did you resolve issue of how to solidify or package glycerine for burning? What about mailing tubes? Or better yet cores from a carpet wholesaler, cut to length, All our paper products come in on 3" cores which are pretty standard, and would bae thrown out by any one selling broadloom.
 
Location: canada | Registered: August 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've added candle stubs to the hot glycerin before pouring it with the sawdust to make some pretty solid glycerin logs before, but my glyc has all been NaOH catalyst and de-methed so I'm not sure if it would help that much for KOH glycerin.


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Location: Clemson, SC | Registered: March 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't burn much, mostly in a fire pit in the back yard. I just mix glyc and saw dust in a bucket and throw scoops of it on the fire after it gets going well and has a good bed of coals.
 
Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: September 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I used the OJ containers kd460 mentioned (fabric softener refills come in the same style cardboard container). The plastic burns fine itself. I used junk mail run through a peper shredder as a binding agent. These were 1/2 gallon containers, and I tried varying amounts of KOH based glycerin in them. I found 1kg too be too much - too runny when in the fireplace. I think 800 grams worked out pretty well.

Horn
 
Location: Flint, MI | Registered: February 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I work in an office were everyting is shredded daily. I'm going to collect some of the shredded paper and see what kind of ratio I can get to burn cleanly with newspaper as the "log".
 
Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Raften:
I don't burn much, mostly in a fire pit in the back yard. I just mix glyc and saw dust in a bucket and throw scoops of it on the fire after it gets going well and has a good bed of coals.


Raften,
I was thinking of doing this same method.
about how much glycerine do you add to a bucket of saw dust?
Do you have a glycerine/sawdust ratio that I can start with?

Danny


05 CRD and 07 Dodge 2500. Both on B100
 
Location: Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: November 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We've gone through many buckets(5 gallons size) so far..is seems if mixed with saw dust somewhere between wet and clumping..this works well. maybe a little on the dry side..

we take this a little at a time, single full news paper for a roll, to make a log for the fire place.

what I have noticed..is that the wetter this mix the more hard residue is left. the dryer the less..

here I go again.. against the grain..I have used these logs to start a fire..ie NO coals..NO heat..
well I'm still here..and the first one was months ago..I just treat the logs like start paper..and load of wood on top.maybe some extra paper to go with them.. at the moment we seem to go through a bucket a day. 1 bucket of sawdust/gylcerin mix..1 bucket of glycerin yeilds about 4 buckets of gly/sawdust mix.

fyi..

if you use sawdust for cleanup..keep it..WVO mixed of BD mixed..especially the BD mixed.

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been burning glyc sawdust logs successfully for 2 years. I have halved my wood requirements. I had my chimney cleaned/inspected after the first year. The sweep told me there was absolutely no buildup in the pipe, just some dry ash. I try to have a good hot fire because they burn more completely that way, but I have also thrown them on shortly after starting the blaze. My only recommendation - do this in a woodstove, not an open fireplace. Look here to see pictures of my glyc log operation: http://www.biodieselpictures.com/viewtopic.php?t=667


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nice setup Al!
I am trying to come up with an automated setup since I use demethed NAoH I need something I can drain the hot glycerin into right out of the reactor to mix with shredded paper and bio soaked wood chips before it hardens. Maybe a cement mixer... I will be dealing with over 55 gallons at a time with the next reactor...
Maybe 2 drums welded end for end (or a large water tank)on a set of motorized rollers with a large sealable door on the side of the drums so the stuff can be shoveled out and the sawdust shoveled in.
Hmmm...
I will have allot of biodiesel soaked shaving from the wood chip filter so these logs will be potent...
Cheers,
Jon
 
Location: Wellington County, Ontario Canada | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Greetings, Has anyone used a cement mixer to mix sawdust/glycerine/glop? Having limited energy to hand mix the sawdust/glycerine, I need to find a physically minimal method of making "logs". I have a more than adequate supply of glycerine(KOH), carpet tubes, and sawdust - and the woodstove to burn them in. I can find a good used mixer off of craigslist for $100 to $200. Terry
 
Location: Montesano, WA | Registered: March 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Has anyone used a cement mixer to mix sawdust/glycerine/glop


I haven't done it, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work. If you really, REALLY want to make it minimal effort: dump your mixer directly into a 3" grout pump and then pump-fill all the cardboard tubes. That would be some fast and efficient fire log creation.

I'm at a point where I have far more newspaper, old magazines, and shredded paper than I have sawdust, so I am going to make some paper-glob logs pretty soon here. I'm about half way through the small pile of wood logs I set up to heat the shop this winter, so I am going to have to come up with something else to make it to spring!
 
Location: Southern WI, USA | Registered: May 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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terry,
Having made and burned hundreds of these over the past two years, I can understand why you would want to somehow automate the process. A concrete mixer uses the tumbling motion of the stone to do some of the mixing. I would be inclined to try a mortar mixer. I mix in a trough with a hoe. I made my own trough by cutting an old methanol drum (55 gal) in half lengthwise. Filling the logs is more time consuming than mixing. Ryan might be on to something with his grout pump idea although I think my preferred mixture might be a bit too dry to pump.

Ryan,
I didn't have much luck with shredded paper. Sawdust absorbs much more liquid. Newspaper might work although, I doubt magazines would be much good.

With the extreme cold here, I am just tearing through my stockpile of logs this winter. By the end of March I will have disposed of all the glycerol from last years biodiesel production except for what I reserved for soapmaking.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Been mixing VO sludge with sawdust for a few years and recently added glycerin waste to the mix. I use a plastic tub at waist height, mix with a shovel and fill the empty milk cartons with a garden trowel. Almost no bending over and no time consuming machines to mess about with. Keep it Simple; mechanization isn't always better.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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