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antifreeze from glycerine
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My understanding is that the cavitation is from the water pump , how can the piston effect the coolant , there is no contact ?
 
Location: St.Paul | Registered: March 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by dieselguy:
Propelene Glycol at $0.71 per pound is more valuable than Biodiesel which is currently valued at about half of that (if you can get it).

With all the glycerin that's being produced it seems this is a development worth watching.


Neutralize it and remove any impurities and you combine those two (PG and Glyc) w/water and a couple other niceties and you've got yourself some "personal" water based lubricant Wink

Aloha!
 
Registered: July 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnTF:
My understanding is that the cavitation is from the water pump , how can the piston effect the coolant , there is no contact ?


The cavitation that causes the problem is not related to the water pump.

My understanding is that each cylinder of a diesel engine consists of a steel sleeve placed inside the cast iron block. The sleeve is under extreme pressure during combustion. But, the sleeve is subjected to a vacuum on the intake stroke.

The vacuum tends to make the sleeve separate from the block. Now this separation is microscopic, but none the less real. The coolant under the sleeve will vaporize during the intake stroke. The vapor bubbles then instantaneously collapse after forming.

The vaporization and collapse is known as cavitation. The cavitation causes pitting and, as said earlier, engine failure.

I am not sure my lay explanation does justice to the physics involved, but this is how I understand it.
 
Location: Illinois | Registered: February 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well I still have to disagree , on a couple points , I suspect that 98% of the members here do not have sleeved engine , those are commercial engines and not all of them have sleeves .
I know form working on and owning many , VWs , MBZ , Cummins 5.9 , Cat 3208 ect.
The rest is unknown to me , could you give some reference / links , I try to follow up on unknowns ?
Thanks
 
Location: St.Paul | Registered: March 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Did you ever determine if by-product glycerine can be used as anti-freeze? If so, in what concentrations? I have an application I would like to use it in (non-engine related) where I need to protect from freezing down to -20F.
 
Location: Madison, CT | Registered: December 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes it's used as antifreeze
Freezing point of water glycerine mixtures



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hey John,

I am a little confused by your graph, can you tell me what percentage glycerin is required for 14 degrees Fahrenheit, maybe with an example I can figure it out. Thanks
 
Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The graph comes from DOW Chemical

According to the graph, a mix of 30% glycerin by weight with 70% water by weight, won't freeze till 14°F. For example 7 pounds of water mixed with 3 pounds of glycerin.

Adding more than 66% glycerin raises the freeze point from the lowest temperature



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks
 
Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I read somewhere that borax is used in coolant concentrate to act as a pH buffer.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lets see...

560 gallon solar hot water storage tank...
8.3 pounds per gallon for water
1.21 specific gravity for glycerin -> 10.04 pounds per gallon of glycerin

x= gallons of water

(x*8.3) = .7y
y= (8.3x)/.7

(560-x)(10) = .3y
y= (5600-10x)/.3

(8.3x)/.7 = (5600-10x)/.3

Cross multiply

.3(8.3x) = .7(5600-10x)
2.49x = 3920 - 7x
9.49x = 3920
x = 413 gallons of water -> 147 gallons of glycerin to get a 70/30 mixture.

(Of course I have glycerol, not glycerin. How the heck do I clean it up to make it suitable to put in my solar hot water system? Smile )

-Jim


www dot FryerPower dot com
1987 300DT (The sedan, not the wagon.) Some modifications to the fuel system.
1995 S350D Unmodified fuel system.
I plead the 5th.
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How 'dirty' is it.
Wouldn't a 5µ filter like one of these be adequate.
Natural Cotton String-Wound Filter Cartridge
Applications:
• Vegetable Oils
• Dilute Acids
• Alkalis
• Organic solvents
• Portable liquids
• Paints
• Alcohols/Glycols
• Petroleum
• Water/Hydronic heating fluids
• for use to 300°F


5 MICRON STRING WOUND FILTER
SKU: CU5R97T

Standard Boiler Filters 9-7/8" Unbleached Cotton, string wound, economy

http://www.amresupply.com/product/CU5R97T



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I think the crude glucerin byproduct needs more than filtering to clean it up, it needs to be processed into a much more purified product by chemical or steam distillation before it is usable as antifreeze.

This links to info about seperating glycerin from biodiesel byproduct, this links to the discussion in this forum where I found the prior link.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim c cook:
I think the crude glucerin byproduct needs more than filtering to clean it up, it needs to be chemically processed into a much more purified product before it is usable as antifreeze.


why? what will your proposed chemical processing remove?



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It removes the residual salts, FFA, alcohol, soaps, biodiesel, lye, and anything else that ends up in the crud drained off the bottom of the biodiesel. Doing web searching on this subject in the past I found one person that had tried running crude byproduct as antifreeze in his vehicle, it turned the hoses to mush before the first winter was over.

I just did another web search for glycerin antifreeze, I found a lot of info on using PURE glycerin but nothing about using "crude" glycerin, doing a search for "crude glycerin" I find a huge amount of info about CONVERTING the crude glycerin into polypropylene glycol for use as antifreeze but nothing about using the crude glycerin directly.

This links to a biodiesel glycerin web page with a bit of info on potential uses for crude glycerin.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The crap will settle out, the methanol will evaporate, the dilute residual lye will prevent corrosion.

No suggestion using it in vehicles.
Not surprised that crude uncleaned biodiesel byproduct would cause problems in a vehicle, most likely from the methanol.

Cleaning it for solar or heating system use shouldn't be all that difficult, just use common sense.

I encourage people to experiment. Don't be put off by undocumented, anecdotal, 'horror stories'.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Please do testing, soak any items that might be used in the system for a few months in verious ratios of crude glycerin/water at the same elevated temperatures that will likely be found in the solar heated system and report the results back here.

I hope it is as simple as filtering, I have a future solar heated "organic rankine cycle" electric generator project planned that will require about a thousand gallons of some sort of heat transfer/storage fluid that will be heated to some tempeature above the boiling point of water using solar, byproduct would be nicer than using used engine oil or veg.

I found one small ORC solar power generation system using "GLYCOL" as it's hot working fluid so the idea should work if the byproduct glycerin does not cause hose degridation or corrosion of any of the metal in the system?

A basic article about this type ORC power system is HERE, a much more detailed blog by the MIT folks is HERE.
 
Location: fisher,illinois,usa | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Don't use crude glycerin biodiesel byproduct, clean it like one would clean biodiesel, then test it as described.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I use glycerin in my wood boiler. I mix it 50/50 with water and have been doing this for 3 years now. No problems what so ever. Also one night my stove went out and the water temp dropped to 15 degrees, and everything was fine.

I also use glycerin in my 99 dodge. I use about a 50/50 mix and have been doing this for about a year. The temp stays steady even when pulling my fifth wheel up a long steep grade.

I prepare the glycerin for antifreeze by distilling the methanol out and then boiling the rest of the crap out. I then filter through a screen mesh filter and then a 10 micron filter. sometimes i filter my glycerin finer for other uses, however, 10 micron is plenty for antifreeze usage.
 
Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have to toss this in here...
I have always saved my wash water, in cubies. I used to use it in the pressure washer on equipment and also as dust abatement. I noticed for years that the wash water, if from the first batch, never freezes. So I started putting it in a suburban I have with a leaky water pump. Prestone being $10 per gallon, this seemed expiditious until I could replace the water pump.
I suppose there is a percentage of glycerine in the wash water, and also methanol and some biodiesel. Its been working out very nicely, all I do is use a funnel with a brass screen to make sure and capture any debris.
As the temps get colder I am going to add glycerine to the wash water to enhance the lower freezing point.
DF


"I don't work with collectives. I don't consult, I don't co-operate, I don't collaborate."
Howard Roark
 
Location: Calumet, Michigan, Great White North | Registered: January 20, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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