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KOH based glycerin
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daw, you are correct. Misty, you don't have to add more water, it will melt to liquid with just heat.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
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Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Legal Eagle.
I had a good teacher and was paying close attention to the details. Once upon a time, I use to say my middle inital was P and that stood for Perfection.

*grin*

Thanks, again, for all of your assistance and guidance, Sir Soap Master.


daw (also known as daw_two on some forums)

1987 Mercedes 300SDL
2000 diesel Dodge Dakota Cummins Big Grin
1984 Mercedes 300D
1981 Mercedes 300D
 
Location: Memphis, TN (kind of) | Registered: January 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Legal when I tried to re-melt it in a sauce pan it just burned on the bottom. Then I tried it in the microwave which did indeed melt it but it was so thick there was no way I could re-mold it. Any thoughts.... MM
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Misty;

With a base glycerine that was reated with KOH this is all very bizzare. You sure it wasn't done with NaOH ? This sounds like the behaviour of NaOH based glycerine that had some biodiesel left in it.
Of the several hundred Kgs of bar soap I have made I have never once had any trouble remelting using just heat (you gotta stay on top of it stirring all the time).
List your complete procedure : a-z. This should give up the boo boo. This stuff is simply just not that complicated.
Essentially when you drain the reactor what you have is a nice degreasing soap, all we do is add a couple things to make it harden up or lather a bit better. Biodiesel in the mix is a killer, so is a mixed bag of feedstock glycerines. I have no end of trouble with jugs of mixed partly hydrogenated and canola glycs. One does what it's "supposed" to and the other is just plain rebellious using the same methodology. Is it possible that most troubles are due to this feedstock mix issue ? That is probably the one issue that I have not deal with at all, but should have as I have had problems with it.
I have determined that now I will be recovering the metahnol from the mixed batches and dumping the glyc to long-time compost and will be keeping the various feedstock glycs apart from each other. When I have done this I get the results I posted on my soap page, consistently.
Just like I get better results with adding the glyc to the water/lye mix rather than the other way around.
Misty, to get back to your querry, it looks like you will have to add a bit aof water to get it to loosen up some, but understand that this is odd behaviour as normally a little gradual heat is all it takes to get it back into fully liquid form.Perhaps going to have a little chat with The Man to get the skinny on the exact nature of the glyc your are working with might be in order.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey Legal Smile
There I was in the middle of my reply and poof it disappears. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr....... Smile

Yes I am certain I am using KOH glycerin and hubby assures me as well. I can tell the difference between them as we have both and they are different in appearance.

At a very low heat all it did was scorch the bottom of the pan. It was apparent it would not be melted that way. The mike gave me goop. I agree with you and with everything I know about glycerine soap this stuff should have easily melted in a sauce pan or mike but it didn't and what the mike left me with was not an option.

Yes the glycerin I am getting from hubby's reactor is exactly like what you say it should be. Let's hope so aye! Anyways I have used it as is for all sorts of heavy duty degreasing jobs around here as well as laundry, floors, leather etc. It's awesome stuff.

There is no BD in the mix. The feedstock is soy and he will not accept any that titrates over 6.

I will include my full recipe/experiment here for you and I will also tell you that the re-milled soap I made is fantastic and of course smells wonderful. I am very pleased with it. The colour is a nice tan, neither hard but not too soft considering it's glycerin. The lather is very copious without being slimy feeling at all.....it left my skin very nice with a satiny glow and of course a nice scent......the best BD soap I have made to date. Rivals the glycerin melt and pour I have been making for years....in fact IMO it is far nicer.

Here's exactly what I did and what I plan to continue to do as I love the soap I am getting and besides no matter how hard I try I cannot seem to get back to the brown bar soap that I was getting while trying to make liquid soap which BTW I still have not been able to get!

This recipe inc. some cocoa butter which I plan to omit during my next bar experiment to see just how much it affected the hardness of the soap as well as the lather.

4 cups glycerin by volume
1 cup water by volume
3 oz. lye by weight
1 1/4 oz. cocoa butter by weight

I placed the glycerin in a soup pot on the stove and heated on low until about 160 degrees. in the meantime I heated the water to 100 degrees and added the lye. I slowly trickled the lye water into the glycerin while stirring continuously. I stirred this way for ten minutes and then removed it from heat and stirred another ten before pouring into a mold. I did not cover it or do anything special. Let it sit overnight and unmolded it. In both trials of this recipe I had some brown goop on the bottom that I scraped off and saved and it's the closet I have come to getting the shampoo type consistancy that I am trying to get! LOL Anyways I then let it sit overnight on a drying rack.

I took 12 oz. by weight of the bar soap and grated it. I placed that and 9 oz. by volume of water into a pot and heated it on med low. I did not allow it to boil and just kept enough heat to melt the grated soap stirring occassionally. Once it was all melted I removed it from the stove and continued to stir until it reached 150 degrees. At that time I added my essential oils and poured it into molds. It was extremely thick. It yeilded 10 3.5 oz. bars. I placed them in the freezer for about an hour, then unmolded them and let them dry for about a week. Oh yeah there was again a little (about 1/16") separation at the bottom of the molds.........brown goopy stuff which I toweled off before placing on dry rack.

There you have it Soap Man........show me the way......cleanse me of my sins!!!! lol hehehehe Wink Smile

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shaun,
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What is re-milled soap?

The liquid soap that I have made has the consistancy of slime. It flows, but all wants to come out of the container as one long slimy blob. To fix this I just add 25% commercial soap/detergent. 25% suave shampoo for my shampoo. 25% Gain laundry detergent for my laundry detergent. After that it is still a thick liquid, but it flows and breaks apart like a liquid instead of a gel.

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I took 12 oz. by weight of the bar soap and grated it. I placed that and 9 oz. by volume of water into a pot and heated it on med low. I did not allow it to boil and just kept enough heat to melt the grated soap stirring occassionally. Once it was all melted I removed it from the stove and continued to stir until it reached 150 degrees. At that time I added my essential oils and poured it into molds. It was extremely thick. It yeilded 10 3.5 oz. bars. I placed them in the freezer for about an hour, then unmolded them and let them dry for about a week. Oh yeah there was again a little (about 1/16") separation at the bottom of the molds.........brown goopy stuff which I toweled off before placing on dry rack.

CORRECTION!!!!! I took "24" oz of grated soap and 9 oz. of water and mixed them together for the re-milling process. It yeilded 33 liquid ozs. though it was quite thick to pour. The bars weigh apr. 2.5oz. The same molds yeilded 3.5oz. bars with the melt and pour I used to make so I assumed it would be the same. Smile

I have just remilled two more batches but because of my error with the wieght of the grated soap I have actually accidentally added twice as much water as the recipe listed above. They are in the freezer and I am wondering what I am going to end up with. It certainly was a lot easier to pour in the molds this time! MM
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Rivals the glycerin melt and pour I have been making for years....in fact IMO it is far nicer.

Of course it's nicer ,hehe, it comes from biodiesel.
Me thinks it's the cocoa butter that is giving you the trouble about heat melting.Everything else in there is excatly what we do with raw by-product alone, so the only scoundrel is the cocoa, and ya wanna bet it is what is burninng ?



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Legal

Yesterdays batches had NO cocoa butter and still would only stick to the bottom of the pan even at the lowest possible temperature. I had to add water and on that note less water is definatley better. These bars are far too soft.
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim D:

CUT ...PARTIAL POST of Jim D.

The liquid soap that I have made has the consistancy of slime. It flows, but all wants to come out of the container as one long slimy blob.




Hey Jim.

Maybe you can market that stuff for horror movies.


Hey Legal --- Maybe glycerine soapy gloop can be used in horror movies.


I've had some soap that could have been placed on an artificial surface and if misted with water would have made the perfect indoor skiing surface.

Skiing on Soap ????


daw (also known as daw_two on some forums)

1987 Mercedes 300SDL
2000 diesel Dodge Dakota Cummins Big Grin
1984 Mercedes 300D
1981 Mercedes 300D
 
Location: Memphis, TN (kind of) | Registered: January 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sloppy soap? Just add a bit of water, mix it up and it will thin out.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim D:
What is re-milled soap?

Re-milled also known as "French Milled" soap is when you take your basic bar soap and grate it down, add water and re-melt and mold it. The purpose being to add scents and/or other ingredients that can't be added in the initial cooking because the lye will alter the scents and additives.
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graydon Blair:
It is possible to make solid bar soaps using KOH based glycerin.

We made some last year using it. It definitely isn't as "hard" as soap made from NaOH based glycerin, but it was really nice to use.

It "lathered" more than the NaOH based stuff too.


Here's what some of it looked like:



It was much more translucent than the NaOH based stuff too. You could see light right through it.

I've held on to a few of these bars just to show people that come visit that it is possible to make soap from Biodiesel glycerin.

Were these made from cracked glycerin???
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Mistymeaner:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim D:
What is re-milled soap?

Re-milled also known as "French Milled" soap is when you take your basic bar soap and grate it down, add water and re-melt and mold it. The purpose being to add scents and/or other ingredients that can't be added in the initial cooking because the lye will alter the scents and additives.


Thanks for clearing that up...and for adding a new tool in my soap making tool box. By the way you are missing the [ / quote ] at the end of the quotes. Take the spaces out and it should work.

-Jim
 
Location: Middle Tennessee, Jack Daniel's country | Registered: August 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks Jim. I am having troubles navigating the system. MM
 
Location: Niagara Falls, New York | Registered: May 01, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hey all. i hav a lot of koh glycerin, tried 1ltr glycerine 50 g naoh and about 3 tblsp salt, boil the water then add salt,wait till it cools a little add the naoh, cool that mix, add your de-methed warmed glyc. to the warm water/naoh/salt mix(wich should be cloudy but no sediment) not the water to glyc. do it in a stainless pot. i didnt mix as long as i should. got some black water set to the bottom i got bars in about an hour or 2. cut them up and set them in front of a fan. hop they will harden more in a few weeks. My net test will be using a mixer after everything is togeather with heat. I only have one question. what is trace?
 
Registered: November 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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woops, the water amount was 100 ml, im also going to see what is the maximum saturation for 100 ml's water with salt at boiling, it seems the more salt i add the stiffer solution i get. has anyone else had any more success?
 
Registered: November 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Salt will definitely help harden KOH soap, that's what the old timers used to do. But they were using lard.

Soft oil KOH glycerin really needs something more to harden.

Try using some bacon grease, lard, vegetable shortening or steric acid. All of these should help make a hard bar from KOH glycerin byproduct.

Trace is when while mixing your soap a line will form and hold its shape for an instant in the mixing path. This is sort of like when pudding thickens. Trace acts the same way anywhere from light trace to a thick trace. It's much less noticeable when using our glycein byproduct.

Usually about 20% hardening oil or fatty acid will harden KOH glycerin to a firm bar. Remember to use enough extra NaOH lye to fully saponify the additional ingredients. An always pH or battery test your finished soap prior to use.


-Rick

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Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: April 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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